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To say focus killed the class is a bit over the top.
It's made people re-learn, but it has by no means destroyed it.

It didn't destroy the class. But the pathetic regen of our hardcast (i.e. forced) shots in the rotation make it feel sluggish to build up and not very flexible. Bring in that one QoL enhancement (T13 2pc) and focus feels much more natural and fluid, plus allows for a bit more wiggle room in rotations. It's nice being able to dump a few arcane shots when I need to proc my T13 4pc bonus, or use Kill Command every other rotation instead of CS>CS>CS>ES>CS>CS>CS>ES ad nauseum.

Without T13 2pc, there's no real dynamic playstyle to the hunter's specs outside of MM, and MM has only minimal dynamic capability. What's kept our DPS up outside of the T13 bonus is the gear. It's just insanely well itemized for us. Of course we might not need it to be so "awesome" if we could manage focus better like we do with T13's 2pc. I'd gladly exchange some of our over the top (fun as it may be) DPS for that huge, huge quality of life increase gained by baking in T13's 2pc.
02/27/2012 09:17 PMPosted by Simonn
i have no problem with focus i believe ur just playing it wrong

Care to elaborate, or is a 2nd grade AOLspeak post the best you can muster?

Let's talk about our friendly Shaman DPS specs......then we can focus on you Hunters that are doing PERFECTLY fine in PvP.
It didn't take me long to re-learn my hunter when Cataclysm hit. Maybe a couple hours on target dummies. I really can't complain. I'm enjoying being a hunter as much now as I ever did, and I'm rockin' the DPS! was the resto druid they ruined. I don't play him anymore :(
02/26/2012 11:32 AMPosted by Ascerin
I'm fine with focus, and i'm fine with it only going to 100. I'm not fine with it regenerating slower than my pet's focus or a rogue's energy. Have you SEEN how slowly focus regens.... >_>

I agree its completely rediculous! They should to make it so Haste modifies it like energy with rogues.
In pvp, I agree to the fullest. In pve however considering my main is a hunter - I roll out the deeps even in the current state of hunters in 4.3
Just giving us extra focus wouldn't do much at all outside of providing extra burst. It's (generally) a DPS loss to focus cap as it is. Just having a higher ceiling wouldn't change that. You should be dumping focus and replenishing it frequently in a matter of several seconds.

The 2-piece T13 set bonus helps with regeneration significantly. That's the boost that we really needed. We're no longer focus starved, so long as we can get a cobra/steady shot or two off. I'm hoping that that set bonus was something like a test that Blizzard used as a proof of concept. It would be great to see that regeneration as a baseline in Mists of Pandaria.

The T13 set bonus allows for a much larger (and needed) margin of error. You only need to shoot one cobra/steady shot for the same amount of regeneration that would otherwise be provided by two casts. This gives you more mobility and more Aspect of the Hawk up-time in movement-heavy scenarios. It provided a decent enough theoretical DPS bonus, but it seems like it's far from overpowered. It's the quality of life boost provided that's really nice.

Personally, I like focus as a resource so far. I enjoy managing it, although it does have its downsides. Our burst potential isn't even close to what it comparably was with mana, and it's disastrous when you're unable to replenish it because of interrupted/missed/LoS'd steady/cobra shots. I have high hopes that Mists of Pandaria will make it an even more comfortable resource when the minimum range limitation is removed.

This is a great post here. You're absolutely correct and I'm hoping that (as you said) the T13 bonus proves to Blizzard and Design that we need this sort of regen baseline.
This is kind of shall I put this...making it very clear that the Tier 13 2pc bonus needs to be baked into our focus regen. The argument continually going around for lack of DPS or flexibility is "lol you don't have T13 2pc". Well, that pretty much plainly tells one that the bonus is a crutch. Without the bonus we lose a significant amount of DPS relative to what we have now and/or much flexibility in our rotations.

I'm really glad people are picking up on this. This is the main point..

And I agree, Focus is fine and I don't want mana back. But I will say that Focus regen needs to be addressed. Not only is the regen terrible without the 2 piece T13, it can be completely shut down without the T13 by classes that auto apply slowing effects. They get to double dip by slowing not only our focus regen but our cast times. The base Focus Regen really needs to be T13 with more abilities that grant focus back (meaningful focus returns) and the double dipping of debuffs vs hunters needs to change.

When focus was new and I read the complaints about hunters doing so poorly with the new system, I was kind of scared...then I stepped into an instance and did the most DPS on a boss in crap gear.

I don't really think that focus is the problem. I'm not saying everyone's bad for not doing well, but it can be tedious to find the right rotation in every situation.
As survival you must be doing it wrong if you run out of focus. Unless you mean in pvp I understand that.

Raid boss

/Hunter's mark
/S Sting
/Black Arrow
/E Shot
three /cobra shot (if you have more that 20% haste)
/E Shot

Rinse and repeat.

you will not run out of focus

I think you made my point for why T13 2pc is so important. That rotation is basically all you're going to be doing ad nauseum for the raid without it, except every once in a while when you get up to about 70 focus and can finally afford to toss in a Kill Command (or AS if you prefer). With T13's 2pc made baseline, you could go like this:

HM>CS>SSt>BA>ES>CS>CS>CS>ES>CS>CS>KC>CS>CS>ES and actually vary what you do with the rotation thereafter. The only time you'll focus cap is when LnL procs happen, especially ones that happen one after the other (as in you get a fresh LnL proc the moment you finish off the first one's two free shots). That isn't reason enough to not have the bonus baseline.

Having flexibility and a slightly better margin for error (or other circumstances which invariably pop up in a movement heavy encounter) is always a plus.
Dude... are you kidding me... i pull 38k dps as a SV hunter on ultra with 397 ilvl, focus really shouldnt be a problem what so ever... cobra shot restores soooooooo much back..
After seeing the OP's comment, I went on using my DK and asked in Trade "what is the hardest class to play at high levels of content - PvE or PvP"

Three people immediately said "Hunter" (no other response)

I don't think that would have been said a couple years ago. As I recall, hunter used to be considered the class for players who couldn't handle the complexity of anything else.

Leveling a hunter is still rather easy, in my opinion, but now *all classes are easy to level.

In contrast, however, the DPS and utility gap between novice and extremely talented players is VERY wide for hunters today - whereas other classes have had that gap narrow.

So we have people reaching level 85 on a hunter and not knowing how to freshen their focus properly, etc while the finer points of other classes might be more intuitive.

Yes, it is true that there are many internet resources available for aspiring hunters, but perhaps WoW game designers could consider this gap and include a few hunter-specific questlines that teach some of these skills to baby hunters in-game? Apologies if this has already been done - I haven't leveled a hunter in a rather long time.

Also, if you are a top DPS hunter, may I suggest that you take aside novice hunters in your guild and see if they would want some advice on getting the most out of their toon.

In much of the game, the need for vanilla-style "c l a s s leaders" is gone (replaced by "role leaders") but for hunters I think the need can still be there.
I truly honestly don't know how this thread got so big, this is the biggest troll/retarded thread i have seen in a while

Also was the resto druid they ruined. I don't play him anymore :(

don't make me cry.... /sniff
They destroyed my beloved resto druid, he's just collecting cobwebs and dust slowly now... D:
Focus is fine and the 100 cap(110 for BM) is fine too. I really don't see any issues at all where the current focus system gimps our damage.
02/27/2012 09:46 PMPosted by Gowhthedough
Let's talk about our friendly Shaman DPS specs......then we can focus on you Hunters that are doing PERFECTLY fine in PvP.

Perfectly fine!?

Do you call MM and BM being tied together for bottom last DPS overall in the game right now perfectly fine?
Do you call Disengage being broken after Charge was fixed perfectly fine?
Do you call pets spawning with 6K HP perfectly fine?
Do you call Noxious Stings being bugged perfectly fine?
Do you call Aspect Dancing, Traps and/or Trap Launcher, Flare and our dead zone perfectly fine?
Do you call pet tracking, spawn bugs, UI bugs and useless talents and glyphs still in from when the feeding your pet/happiness system was still around perfectly fine?

I love my Hunter, and it has always been my main. I make do with what I have, and feel that playing at the level of PvP I do, learning to cope with my Hunter makes me alot better with my other classes. But you cannot deny the numerous bugs that have been sitting around for ages, before I even start on quality of life issues.

Please refrain from making me laugh hysterically with comments like that again :)

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