Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
Prev 1 2 3 36 Next
Just wondering with the Mists of Pandoria, if there will be anything new for all of us PVP players, that don't care for dungeons? We need better armor and weapons, gold, ...suprise drops would be fun!
I wanted to know why the suspected raid with Throne of the Tides never got put in. I was really hopeing for some underwater epic battle with the weakened Ozumat.

But good job on the dungeons/raids enjoyed a good amount of them in the beginning of Cata.
Q. What didn’t work out as planned or expected?

Initially, we started off the Heroic dungeons at too high of a difficulty. The difficulty level rather abruptly changed when compared to the Heroics players experienced at the end of Wrath of the Lich King. This major change caught many players off guard, and frustrated some of them. The difficulty also increased the effective amount of time required to complete a dungeon to a longer experience than we wanted. With the release of patch 4.3 we’re now in a much better place. We’ve always talked about being able to complete a dungeon over lunch, and the Hour of Twilight dungeons get us back to that goal. End Time, Well of Eternity, and Hour of Twilight all provide epic play experiences to our players, but at the real sweet spot of difficulty, complexity, and time commitment.

Yeah, no.

LF New MMO that embodies the exact OPPOSITE of this paragraph. Any suggestions?
I don't know if this superficial interview can even be called a post mortem, and reading what little fluff content there was just served to remind me of how vast the gulf between the raid/dungeon designers and myself is getting. I won't even touch the raid side of things because doing so would likely get me suspended or banned from the forums again. But with regards to the new 5 mans in 4.3, they're too easy to even be fun for me in the slightest. It's gone further than even the easier heroics in Wrath.

Even on a fresh alt wearing i305 greens and a boosted ilevel I find I have more time to press DPS buttons than healing buttons in completely pugged groups, and once one reaches the "recommended" level of legitimate gear, spec'ed and geared tanks end up being superfluous for all but a small number of pulls/encounters; it's easier and faster to just run with four DPS. Maybe this is the level of difficulty the player base at large needs to get all of them through the instances, however, I feel there is something wrong with the design when I'm not even asked by the content to play my role at all, let alone with any competence. Without the content asking that of me, I don't care in the slightest that I can do these instances over lunch because doing them doesn't even involve playing the game in the way I would like to play it.

Unfortunately I don't really foresee this changing with regards to five mans going forward, but it would be nice to have something to do over lunch that was actually fun and engaging.
The problem here is that Blizzard's definition of a good endgame is different from most of yours. If every level 85 player can see all the endgame content while at the same time people who actually want to be challenged have content to keep them occupied, that's a win for Blizzard.

03/05/2012 06:14 PMPosted by Odok
The only thing that needed improvement was... heroics being too hard at launch?
It was definitely a mistake to turn around and say "okay, now you guys have to work for your gear again" after Wrath of the Faceroll King. The desire to put that genie back in the bottle was admirable, but in the end they just pissed off both the bads and the elitists by making things hard again only to go 'lol just kidding' and nerf it. Healing heroics that first week of Cata (as well as laughing at all the whiny !@#$% Priests on the forums who swore that they were awesome healers and that the problem was just that their class was gimp/the content was too hard) was probably the most fun time I had all expansion, but I understand completely why they had to go back on that.

Yeah, no.

LF New MMO that embodies the exact OPPOSITE of this paragraph. Any suggestions?


Yeah, no.

LF New MMO that embodies the exact OPPOSITE of this paragraph. Any suggestions?

Probably futile. As soon as Blizzard proved that easy = $, we were all pretty much !@#$ed.

I don't see any developer going against that grain. The most you're going to get is token difficulty modes that have no actual reward but titles/cosmetic fluff, and aren't actual content on their own. (see GW2 dungeon modes)
Considering neither of you got full HM in DS even with a what is it....10% nerf now? I say they are doing a good job. And heroics are for gear and story telling not wiping.
Is this Scott fella playing the same game as us?

There is precious little in Cataclsym that could be deemed a success.
These "interviews" sound more like job interviews, where every question is just an opportunity to share your strengths, without really admitting any weakness.

I really, really hope they are just PR stunts and not a real reflection of how developers really feel the cataclysm went.

What? The hardest part about any of the new 5-mans is having the pug DPS to kill ghouls on the Sylvanas fight. Nothing in the rest of any of the instances is even remotely difficult in anything but ilvl 333 gear.


Sure, the fights look complex, but it's a complexity that doesn't require very much out of the players, so it feels extremely shallow.

Honestly, these 5-mans are anything but epic because they are simply impossible to fail at. How can you claim that you're getting an epic experience out of something when my ilvl 361 Resto Shaman can heal many of the encounters with just Healing Stream Totem in a group that doesn't completely overgear it? It just makes me not want to play, because I realize that the game is only about loot, no longer about experience or challenge.

This interview was a whole lot of words to say nothing at all. I would at least expect to acknowledge some of the shortcomings in design encounter in Dragon Soul, but to tout it as one of the best raiding experiences ever is to be irrevocably out of touch with the player base. Just because people are clearing it on a weekly basis does not mean it is a success. There just isn't anything else to do at level 85.
This was easily the worst thing I've ever read that was released by Blizzard. Good use of the word "mechanics" 8 times in that short article. Encounters are described like it was read from a 1 sentence summary from google before answering. You also get the feeling this person hasn't played since tier 11, except to fire up a test char on LFR during internal tests. I'm not even going to comment on Spine.

There are so many legitimate player concerns and questions about the state of and well being of a game many of us have been playing for almost a decade, and the best you can muster is a couple softballs and a promise that the upcoming press tour will fix it. Very frustrating and disappointing, to say the least. I apologize for the harsh tone of this post, but at this point I don't even know how else to put my current feelings about the game.
Not nearly as interesting as the Fargo post-mortem as it doesn't really dig into any good stuff. Fargo really got into some good nitty gritty about what they did right & wrong in cata and how they were adjusting their strategies in MoP. this doesn't really help show how the lessons learned from cata will affect MoP. I thought these would provide a detailed analysis on Blizzard's thoughts going forward, instead this guy is just like "meh... cata was fine."

I mean this guy is supposed to be the "Lead Encounter Designer" for *ALL* of World of Warcraft!!!! ...and yet he has almost nothing interesting to say about all of cata's design!? I know this Daelo guy has to be pretty passionate & knowledgeable about dungeon design, but he doesn't come off that way in this article.

Just as a for-instance: people were really passionate about the initial difficulty of 5-man heroics. Some were really mad and thought it was too hard, others were just as passionate that the difficulty stay stay. So there is a TON of stuff that daelo could have talked about, starting with coming out and stating explicitly whether Blizz thought they were too hard, and what was going to be done in MoP. Instead, he gives a simple & really vague "the difficulty kinda surprised the average player after wrath." ...ummm, no kidding dude, i could have gotten that analysis from a 12 year old; I would have thought the lead dungeon designer of the biggest MMO in history should have something more insightful to say.

Don't get me wrong, there was plenty of good stuff in the article, i just wish it had done more then spend most the time simply detailing features. I hope the later articles go into a more detailed review. Keep em coming!
After reading through this all I feel is a sense of concern. He touched on almost none of the problems this had expansion had and instead spoke of everything as if it were a runaway success.

Things like 50 min queue times, class stacking encounters, the brick wall of heroic rag compared to the rest of Firelands, completely leaving out an entire raid in 4.2, casual players having nothing to do in tier 11 due to difficulty, and the list goes on.

There would be no harm in acknowledging these issues they created, instead they leave me feeling uneasy and wondering if they really learnt anything at all...
I found this particular post-mortem to be less than insightful. I'm grateful for any information; I just wish it was less self-congratulatory and more meaningful. I'd love to hear the design lessons that Scott would teach to a new team member based on the successes and failures of the expansion.

Its easy to look at encounters and say, "I liked this concept," but it doesn't tell us much about the design philosophy. Early Heroics were too hard for many players, but we knew that already.

Ideally, I'd love to see more of what encounters didn't end up working as planned (i.e. where the intended strategy was replaced or a major mechanic was trivialized by clever play), and which cool sounding fights were poorly received by the players, followed by an analysis of *why* that happened and what the team is doing differently now as a result.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum