Hail's Guide to Sub PvE (5.4)

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Thanks Gyro!
Cloaked, what's your guide? I've probably seen it but I don't remember.

Rfeann I am pretty amazed myself, and am feeling pretty special even though it is probably unwarranted.
I duno. I bet they saw your interview on WoW Insider and were like, "Woah. This guy's for serious."
Aww you're so sweet.

Don't make me smack you.
Hail. I finally decided to start learning Sub last night. Took me over an hour to adjust all my addons, keymaps and bars. Another hour to read your guide and begin practicing the basic rotation and fundamental cooldowns.

Just did my first-ever LFR as a Sub rogue. Looking over the WoL parse now. It's pretty ugly.

I also, apparently, was so intent on the rotation that I kind of failed to notice I had never put poisons on either of my weapons.
Well then I'm sure you will do a lot better next time. Unless you forget poisons again. Well, even then I'd think you would improve, as practice is pretty critical.
Hail, might want to add this in for those that don't use bartender. It's for accessing the Shadow Dance bar.

Thanks to Woundmanirl http://www.arenajunkies.com I found this posts...

Cast Shadow Dance and allow it to fade. You can also cancel the aura. Shadow Dance must fade for this to work.
Copy and paste /run BonusActionBarFrame:Show() in your chat box.
Drag all your macros/abilities on your main action bar (it will be your shadow dance bar).
Cast Stealth to return your bars back to normal.

Thank you Woundmanirl for this tip.....

Originally posted by Stabinjack
05/04/2012 09:22 PMPosted by Backstabi
Hail, might want to add this in for those that don't use bartender. It's for accessing the Shadow Dance bar.


(btw I don't use bartender)

Edit: Just edited the main post. I quoted Backstabi directly. It is under the section "Getting Set"
Love the guide. I've played paladins, warlocks, death knights, shamans, etc. Got them maxed level and 390+ ilvl so I decided to play a rogue. How hard could it be right? It always looks so simple. Well, after getting my rogue up to 85 and working on gear my DPS was decent, but not great. I was thinking it was due to bad gear (which is still a work in progress) but after reading this guide I realized I was doing quite a few things wrong. Increased my DPS exponentially from doing about 13k-15k to doing more consistently around 20k and this is still while being a work in progress.
Nice work! (btw this is Haileaus, but I can't access my main)
Turned my pvp spec into sub PvE for heroic spine and it'll probably be the only fight I'll go sub/ Would it be ok to not reforge all my excess hit from playing Combat, and basically use my gear as is. I tried the rotation on a dummy and sustained 30k but then again dummies are inaccurate? Or would the reforges make a huge difference?
Posting in this thread. Cuz I can.

NEW THEORY - Hail is Caera's kind side. Same guild, same faction, maybe they're twins.

HOW'D YOU KNOW? We were only on the same server/guild for a bit, thought I could get away with it!

...Or would the reforges make a huge difference?

You really should reforge for H spine (at least if you are on progression), even if you mainspec sub. Thing is the tendons can't dodge, so any expertise is useless. The rest of the stat priorities are pretty much the same.
Noob rogue here again :P
I also can't get my dmg during tendon phase up. I'm currently ending at around 4.5M after getting third tendon to about 30% (where we wipe :P) The only other rogue in group is doing 5-5.2, granted he's nearly full 410 I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. Right before tendon, I tricks>vanish>premed>ambush>rupture>trinket proc>dance>bush>evis> while trying to maintain recup/snd. Anything I'm doing wrong or things you could suggest would really be awesome.
A few things come to mind.

First, you don't necessarily want to use rupture. The accepted build for spine is http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fchcZ0oZcGcfduoRho:zMmo (which btw you should use), which you will note lacks rupture refreshing. You can replace glyph of Hemo with SnD too. ShD seems to be worse than either. Remember that if you do use Hemo you have to get it up asap for it to be worth it.

Even if you did have the talent, because the uptime on the spine is so low, the damage from MoS'd rupture v. MoS'd and FW'd eviscerate would probably be close, if not a bit in favor of eviscerate.

Second, when you are attacking the amalgamation and it is about dead you should make sure you have 5 CP and full energy, so that you can use Recuperate and then SnD as the amalg blows. This gives you at least an extra 5 CP finisher. Though you may have to refresh SnD (I wouldn't bother with recup unless you used it really early), you can do it with minimal CP.

Third, make sure to reforge before the fight. The tendons can't dodge or parry, so any expertise is useless. I'd keep the normal stat priority though, nothing else will change all that much. Use http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t115053-complete_rogue_reforger_tool/ to make your own priorities and get a better result than Shadowcraft, its really nice.

Finally, make sure you are getting and giving to the other rogue. And don't use the glyph - you should be using tricks before the tendon pops and the glyph reduces damage.
To add to, and expand upon Hail's points this is a slightly modified transcript of my instructions to our guild's rogues for H Spine: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2369743517?page=11#201
Thanks for this guide Hail - I've only recently levelled my rogue - but have started out as sub dps because:
a) I levelled through PvP so sub is very familiar
b) Daggers were the best things I had access to immediately (yay for PvP again and then the first stage of legendaries)
c) My main is feral and there are a lot of similarities with kitties (although my main is a bear).

Anyway I've been having a blast with it and doing quite well (scarily close to if not better than my feral dps despite gear differences) - still have lots to learn - like I learnt the hard way not to shadow step the wing tentacles on madness (kitty charge fails because of pathing, shadow step has no such problems... but you end up stepping into the air).

However I did have one question:
How do you handle pre-potting? Is it just a case of pre-pot, stealth, run in (sprint?) or is it not worth it because of lost up-time? Or do you pre-pot, stealth, shadowstep?

I have a macro that uses my potion, casts tricks on my focus, and casts stealth. After that I will do my usual from-stealth opener, which is a Shadowstep-Ambush macro (note that I do not use this as my first ambush in ShD).

The whole point of prepotting is that you get the benefit of a potion without putting it on CD, which you can only do out of combat, so unless someone ninja-pulls then there should be no loss of uptime.
It's been a year or so since I've last played and I'm now getting back into playing and love the fact that sub is back on its high horse. Now this may just be me talking but we were doing reg DS last night, and a BOE sword dropped last night. Everyone was telling me to go to my sub spec and use the sword. Are swords viable for sub or is it daggers as I have always known it to be? The sword is Spine of the Thousand Cuts.
To answer your question, proabably not. Backstab subtlety is generally a lot better than hemo-sub. The difference does diminish as you approach BiS gear levels (hemo scales better than BS), but your gear is not BiS. Now if you had really good gear but were using your current weps and got one that I'd suggest that you try it out, but that isn't the case. Perhaps they meant for a combat offspec?
If you have 10k gold to spend on weps I'd suggest that you get yourself a pair of stage-1 legendary daggers. They will last you quite a while and only take one DS run to get.

To give unasked for advice, you are speced wrong. Use the one in my guide. You should also get cata gems (also going by what I say in my guide); the blue quality ones should be cheap and a massive upgrade to what you have. I suggest you go to http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/us/vashj/tapeon/#!/ and do what it suggests for reforging (gems and spec too if you wanna snub my guide). While enchants aren't necessary for casual playing, getting landslides on your weps (or at least landslide/hurricane, and if you are very cheap double hurricane) will increase your dps by a LOT. I would hold off on this though till you get DS or stage 1 daggers.

Hope I helped, and thanks so much for breaking up my boredom.

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