Unskilled players > CM bronze medal

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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Looks like it got taken down but there's an RF for whoever gets all Gold medals for the dungeons. Every single one.
Blizz said all the raids will have 3 difficulties (normal, heroic, LFR). They have not specifically said there will be both 10 and 25 man versions. As I count, if you include both 10m and 25m, there are FIVE difficulties, not three.
03/19/2012 01:09 PMPosted by Navrithil
Blizz said all the raids will have 3 difficulties (normal, heroic, LFR). They have not specifically said there will be both 10 and 25 man versions. As I count, if you include both 10m and 25m, there are FIVE difficulties, not three.


why are you talking about raids, when this thread is about 5 man challenge modes?
Looks like it got taken down but there's an RF for whoever gets all Gold medals for the dungeons. Every single one.


That's kind of interesting, I hope it's a guild achievement, since I suspect that my guild will likely do them using at times, various players. One or two lucky persons will get RF I suppose.
Whats the problem with encouraging "lesser skilled" players to try more challenging content and potentially get better with some rewards that are attainable for them?
03/19/2012 04:23 PMPosted by Sabod
Whats the problem with encouraging "lesser skilled" players to try more challenging content and potentially get better with some rewards that are attainable for them?


nothing wrong, but we're not sure that's what's going on here.

remember bear mounts in za (5man) ? where the tank wants to do it, the healer knows he cant do it, tank pulls too much, dies, ragequits, and everyone spends a few minutes cussing out the healer while waiting for a new tank?

It's more likely to happen than your happy fuzzy everyone learning helping each other and playing together
It doesn't matter what medal you get, gold or bronze, you're still competing in the special olympics.
03/19/2012 04:38 PMPosted by Fogrum
It doesn't matter what medal you get, gold or bronze, you're still competing in the special olympics.


migh as well win...losing in special olympics would suck far worse. If you win...eh, expected. If you lose...OUCH!
03/19/2012 04:38 PMPosted by Robokapp
Whats the problem with encouraging "lesser skilled" players to try more challenging content and potentially get better with some rewards that are attainable for them?


nothing wrong, but we're not sure that's what's going on here.

remember bear mounts in za (5man) ? where the tank wants to do it, the healer knows he cant do it, tank pulls too much, dies, ragequits, and everyone spends a few minutes cussing out the healer while waiting for a new tank?

It's more likely to happen than your happy fuzzy everyone learning helping each other and playing together


Well i was thinking more of pre formed groups rather then dungeon finder ones, if I have the mindset of doing this kind of stuff I probably have the mindset that I want to form a group with people I know and will have fun with.
I thought the idea was for each medal you got nerfed a bit compared to the content to make it harder. So that speed pull you did in bronze takes longer, does more damage, and goes down slower than it did before which makes it more challenging.

I think we'll have to see how it plays out before judging it.
on the list of "things WoW should never do" stands very high up one that's being adressed here.

first, to adress the 'says who" inevitable question: Says me.

basically I claim WoW should never ever create "competitive pugging". The purpose of pugs can be to farm a raid or dungeon, to xplore a new raid and maybe kill a few bosses, but never to competitively to-the-millisecond race against others. the ammount of 'brb 1 min' or griefing and/or raging that'd result from a pug competition is infinite.

in pvp its fine, no matter what, one team wins. in pve...bad. bad bad bad.

they mentioned UI queue buttons so I assume this will be a part of LF...C ?
I thought the idea was for each medal you got nerfed a bit compared to the content to make it harder. So that speed pull you did in bronze takes longer, does more damage, and goes down slower than it did before which makes it more challenging.

I think we'll have to see how it plays out before judging it.


Even still, you're just talking about instance versions being numerically different in tuning. Whoopdee doo. We saw the bad raiding that design got us in Dragon Soul. You want more?
The fact that its relatively easy for the unskilled to get bronze medals from challenge modes is about as important to me as that 10 years old get a trophy for winning their sports day. Ie not at all.
people are assuming challenge mode dungeons can be done using LFD

even if you could do them via LFD which I very much doubt

why on earth would you ever want to


It's not really an assumption when blues already mentioned it last year that it can be done via LFD...

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/203815-wow-dungeons-and-raids-panel/

The challenge itself may not always be difficult, but ranking will be... Challenges will be enabled during any dungeon run that supports them, including those joined through the Dungeon Finder. To help get people together that are looking to achieve the same goals, a special flag will be available to only match you with others looking to do Challenges if you do use the Dungeon Finder.


Last night's interview merely confirming what was being said...
03/19/2012 04:23 PMPosted by Sabod
Whats the problem with encouraging "lesser skilled" players to try more challenging content and potentially get better with some rewards that are attainable for them?


Not sure what side of the argument you are on...

Cm's are supposedly slightly more challenging than MoP heroics which we think will mirror 4.3 heroics. But the 4.3 heroics were not even remotely difficult. So I am pretty skeptical that the slight bump would be that meaningful.

I am all for having avenues for less skilled players to work at and improve their game and get nice rewards. But blizz basically said there is no need for them to improve... It is tuned for them to beat the bronze right out of the gate...
Well there goes my chance of hoping for something difficult for a small group of friends.
I know the medals are the same, but in no shape, manner, or form will challenge mode dungeons reflect what it takes to win an Olympic medal.

So to compare CM dungeons and completing them to what an Olympic athlete does to win a medal isn't an intellectually honest argument in the slightest.

You already get a title for completing 13 randoms...so I'm not worried about that aspect. I would say ZA & ZG were both at a challenge level that we enjoyed when they were released, yet "unskilled" players could still eventually clear them.

The fact that an unskilled player can finish a CM dungeon doesn't mean they will do so without wiping. My guess is that an unskilled group will wipe a lot, however with persistence can complete it. That earns then the very lowest recognition and no shineys. I'm not sure why forum QQ'ers have a beef with that.
I am all for having avenues for less skilled players to work at and improve their game and get nice rewards. But blizz basically said there is no need for them to improve... It is tuned for them to beat the bronze right out of the gate...


Not everyone plays a game does so with the intention of trying to improve themselves. You likely do, but many don't. Blizzard recognizes that fact and would still like to provide content for those not looking to improve themselves, but merely looking for an outlet to waste some time and have a little fun.

These types of players will never win a CM silver or gold medal, just as they will never earn a gladiator title. Blizzard is throwing them a bone - a gesture to say "here's at least some small tidbit to acknowledge that you spent time here", but honestly it will pale in comparison to what rewards the very skilled can earn.

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