Glyph of Demon Hunting (warlock tanks)?

Warlock
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03/22/2012 09:34 AMPosted by Infernalist
This is probably something that just allows temporary off-tanking at best so warlocks have more of a chance to save the day if one of your raid goes down, but it's still pretty friggin' awesome


Not the way it works. Glyphs can't be replaced in combat, and the Glyph of Demon Hunting is what kicks in the Tank-y stuff.

Any DPS using that glyph would find his damage pathetic and his threat through the roof. Like trying to DPS as a sword and board Pally with Righteous Fury on, but no tanking gear on.

The way I read it, Demo locks are going to be viable tanks in MOP.

Honestly - that would awesome.
I would be extremely interested in seeing some similar tools tossed towards hunters in that regards (i.e. specific glyphs / pet specing to nerf damage but increase tanking capability) - but I think pet AI will still be a nasty obstacle.

In the mean time....wtb a Misdirect, my new Demonic Overlords?
i would cry with tears of joy is warlocks could tank and i would forget i even leveled a warrior <3
03/23/2012 12:05 PMPosted by Thefates


I suspect the Glyph is just being used for beta testing.

If they decide that the experiment is viable they can alter the spec and reshuffle the skills to make tanking effects baseline and put core tanking skills (e.g taunt) at the correct levels. there are innumerable way they could fix this to make it viable. A glyph is just convenient for the purpose of experimentation.


I would concur. That's a lot of weight to hinge on a single glyph. Also, that means a warlock tank is out 1 glyph because they had to use one just to "be" a tank. This may be balanced against, but something to consider.

I'm sure they've learned their lesson with DKs trying to let the same spec be viable for dps as for tanking that it's a nightmare to balance. I'm guessing if they like Demo Tanking, they just make Demo a tank spec.

The issue with DK was they had hybrid specs cherry picking talents. In Cata, you couldn't do that, but also only Blood was tank.

In MoP - the spec gets all its base stuff anyways, and the shared talent tree adjusts it from there. It would be a simple matter to add baseline (well, spec baseline) tanking tools to just Demo, that DPS locks wouldn't use except in emergencies (i.e. taunting Chimaeron, to Demo Portal across room), and require a select glyph to "activate tank mode".

The reason they split up Cat / Bear wouldn't apply either, as for both DPS and Tank, it is the same form, same abilities, but the glyph choices (which can't be changed mid-combat, unlike the Forms) is what enables tank mode.
blizz PLEASE let warlocks tank like have demo be like feral was for druids or give them 4 specs like u do now for druids we need more tanks and this would be so much freaking fun
I just tanked heroic end time as my first attempt at tanking as a demo lock... it was a lot of fun and I had no problems at all.. I feel like it will be nerfed though so don't get your hopes up too hgih, but i love the idea and from what I can see, everyone else seems to be for it (for the most part) so i hope they keep it in... they are minor bugs like stated before, NPCs and LFR don't think we're tanks but it's been out 2 days.. if everyone went anti-demo tank they probably wouldn't have wanted to waste the time / money to change their code fit demo tanks.. but i like the idea of a cloth tank :)

so in MOP we'll have 6 tank classes.. and 5 healing classes.. and 11 DPS classes.. all sorts of "bring the player" going on now! hehe
Our warlock is so excited about this. His forum title has been warlock tank for ages. He loves causing chaos, may as well help him along =p
I'm really excited to see people making this happen in the beta already :D. I hope blizzard keeps developing this!!!
03/23/2012 01:40 PMPosted by Narv
... they are minor bugs like stated before, NPCs and LFR don't think we're tanks but it's been out 2 days..


weren't you saying that Azshara didn't consider you the tank so you were not exempt from Hand of the Queen (mind control)?

Girl Friend, She needs to get with it. Times are changing.
I have absolutely no problem with warlock tanks. I'm just afraid that they'll be come the next "blood DKs", with horrible experiences at low levels, OP for the time being, and then wreck stuff in PvP. The one class, the ONLY class I cannot stand to level right now, is a warlock. I would love warlock tanks. As long as they're balanced. I don't want my bear to get thrown out the window for a warlock tank >_>
03/23/2012 02:07 PMPosted by Sarror
I have absolutely no problem with warlock tanks. I'm just afraid that they'll be come the next "blood DKs", with horrible experiences at low levels, OP for the time being, and then wreck stuff in PvP. The one class, the ONLY class I cannot stand to level right now, is a warlock. I would love warlock tanks. As long as they're balanced. I don't want my bear to get thrown out the window for a warlock tank >_>


Aww who could replace such a cute wittle bear for a mean, scary demon? Not this guy!
03/23/2012 02:53 PMPosted by Sasofrass
I have absolutely no problem with warlock tanks. I'm just afraid that they'll be come the next "blood DKs", with horrible experiences at low levels, OP for the time being, and then wreck stuff in PvP. The one class, the ONLY class I cannot stand to level right now, is a warlock. I would love warlock tanks. As long as they're balanced. I don't want my bear to get thrown out the window for a warlock tank >_>


Aww who could replace such a cute wittle bear for a mean, scary demon? Not this guy!

But...DAT DEMON FORM D: /jelly
i really do like the idea for this glpyh but it leaves me with a couple of questions

would demo locks have to gear different, would they have to reforge different, could it really just be that simple of switching a glpyh out to be fully tank ready?

i just dont see blizz giving locks a way to have pretty much 2 specs geared and ready that easy without the gearing hardships
Blizzaarrrrddddd!!!! Please just give a blink or something in this thread if we are on the right track...You don't have to say "yes" or "no" or "maybe"...an *eye blinks once* will suffice.

;) This is so exciting! I had wanted to try this since the Illidan fight in BC!

Now all we have to do is ask for Shamans to tank as an Earth Elemental! ZOMGGGGGG

The possibilities are endless. I am afraid that I am too giddy but I can enjoy the dream until they crush it in a week. :(

Waaaaaaantttttt!!!
i really do like the idea for this glpyh but it leaves me with a couple of questions

would demo locks have to gear different, would they have to reforge different, could it really just be that simple of switching a glpyh out to be fully tank ready?

i just dont see blizz giving locks a way to have pretty much 2 specs geared and ready that easy without the gearing hardships


At this point I think it would basically be reforge all to mastery (for the damage reduction), and I suppose you could also reforge leftovers for dodge/parry.

Gear would probably have no tanking stats on it whatsoever, though.
The issue with DK was they had hybrid specs cherry picking talents. In Cata, you couldn't do that, but also only Blood was tank.

In MoP - the spec gets all its base stuff anyways, and the shared talent tree adjusts it from there. It would be a simple matter to add baseline (well, spec baseline) tanking tools to just Demo, that DPS locks wouldn't use except in emergencies (i.e. taunting Chimaeron, to Demo Portal across room), and require a select glyph to "activate tank mode".


Yeah, but look at the other specs. Look at what Bliz is doing with specs in Mists.

They said they don't want people to have to talent (and I'm guessing this includes glyph) to do their role. They want their spec, just by choosing it, to give them all those "must have" things so that talents can be "fun choices" and we don't have to run into something silly like a Paladin tank who somehow doesn't take Sanctuary (the thing that makes us crit immune as well as adding a flat 10% damage reduction and mana regen for dodging so we don't oom ourselves.)

To this end, if Demo IS going to be a tanking spec, it won't ALSO be a DPS spec, and the difference CERTAINLY won't be having to glyph. Imagine a Demo tank forgetting to switch his glyph before quing and then pulling. :)

.

So what's most likely is Bliz is "testing the waters" using a glyph, and will at some point decide if they're cool with Demo tanks or not. If they are, either they'll give Locks a 4th tree or (more likely, since they already have 2 DPS caster trees that both do more damage outside of Meta), they'll covert Demo into a pure Tank tree.

Considering this is what they've done with EVERY OTHER SPEC in the game, not just Feral, I think it's safe to assume that they don't want Locktanks going live as a glyph toggle.
I'd like to make some clarifications about my original post ( http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4246995300?page=4#79 ) and make some additions as well:

1. The Voidwalker/Voidlord doesn't actually have a threat aura for the Warlock, it's only for itself. The Warlock however still gets the standard tank threat modifier while using this glyph.

2. I feel as if I overlooked Dark Bargain a bit; it has the potential to be one of the best tanking cooldowns in the game. A 10 second bubble, followed by only 50% of the damage taken during that period of time, over double the time it took to take that damage? Dare I say, "OP"? I fully expect this ability to be nerfed at some point. But as long as you maintain aggro during the bubble (as opposed to losing it, like with a pally bubble), it would still remain an incredible cool down. That being said, it would still be situational to the fight at hand (a trend that the new talent system is proving to have).

3. It should be noted that Aura of Enfeeblement provides an extra 20% physical damage reduction over the standard tank Weakened Blows debuff, and it never actually needs to be applied, like with Thunder Clap. However, the tooltip states that it has a reduced effect on bosses, most likely bringing it down to the standard 10% debuff (otherwise every raid would require a lock tank). Still, it gives us a little extra boost on trash and AoE.

4. Carrion Swarm (the transformed Shadowflame in Meta form) provides the standard tank interrupt. It's on the tooltip in the original post, but some people missed it and were claiming that a lock tank wouldn't have an interrupt.

5. Using a Voidlord with Sacrificial Pact seems like it would be more powerful than I originally thought. If used after Shadow Bulwark (+30% health for your Voidlord), the shield received has the potential to be even larger than the version used in conjunction with the Warlock's health, with the additional benefit of not hitting the Warlock for 50% of his health. This would essentially turn the Voidlord into a Health Battery, constantly refilling and providing the Warlock with powerful bubbles. In order to assist with this being used as often as possible, one could also use Glyph of Health Funnel (makes Health Funnel instantly provide health to your pet, but gives it a 10s CD) and use Health Funnel on cooldown (assuming the ratio of Warlock health to pet health on Health Funnel is still generous).

6. Twilight Ward actually turns into Fury Ward using the tanking glyph. Whether or not this is intended is unknown (as it doesn't quite line up with the glyph's description). Assuming it is intended however, we are given yet another powerful CD to use as a lock tank. Fury Ward prevents 30% of all damage taken (instead of just magic damage, as the glyph states), and costs 10 fury for every 1% health prevented. This cost increases by 50% every 2 seconds. The numbers for the cooldown and duration are a little wonky; it doesn't make sense for the spell to last 30 seconds and only have a 10 second cooldown (especially when considering the increased costs as the spell lasts. Why not just reset the spell every 10 seconds?). The most important thing about this spell however, is that it gives us an interesting way to spend our Demonic Fury on mitigation, rewarding players who focus on their rotations and manage to build up a lot of Fury. This is the kind of gameplay that Blizzard has specifically stated is an intended goal for all tanks.

7. Soulshatter isn't learned until level 66, which proves a problem for potential low-level lock tanks (no taunt until level 66). This is easily changeable however, and doesn't cause me much worry.

If I think of anything else, I'll post more. The more I delve into things, the more excited I get about this design.
Here's a video that was posted over on the Warlock forms of a Warlock tanking Hour of Twilight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGgi341JXQo

I've done a couple heroics solo, but that's not a good demonstration of warlock tanking with a group of other people.

So I did Hour of Twilight!
There are so many AOE buttons that I almost don't know what to use. So I just kind of used them randomly to see how effective they'd be. Aside from Murozond, things died so fast it didn't really tell me anything, but I had NO problems ripping aggro off the actual tank.

The actual incoming damage was practically a non-issue. If I actually took damage, I could just drain it back, especially with a group of mobs. Sacrificial Pact is an insanely large absorb (~130k), Demon Soul's effect grants mastery to Demonology, which converts to damage reduction through the glyph. My base reduction from Meta is 74%, and With Demon Soul up, my reduction is about 130-140%. Moonwell Chalice bumps it up to 99%. Cookies give me 34k HP now.
The only real problem is melee mobs that like to shield bash. It doesn't do a whole lot for the most part, but it restricts your drain usage.


EDIT: The post with the video is located here. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4253896131

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