Epics Being Epic Controversey & LFR

General Discussion
The second change I want to mention is that we plan to adjust the role of Valor points. Valor (or the various other names that the currency has had over the years) was originally added to WoW for two reasons: it helped to mitigate really bad luck, for those times when the boss just refused to drop the item you wanted, and it helped encourage players to stay with the group even if they didn't need anything off the next boss.

Over time, we have felt like Valor has taken on too prominent a role, to the point that it risks becoming more important than actual boss loot. This is particularly the case when the tier sets are available on the Valor vendors. We think killing dragons and ransacking their hoard is more epic than shopping at the magic armor store, so we want to shift back toward boss kills being the primary source of epic PvE gear.

In Mists of Pandaria, Valor will be used to power a new feature that allows you to increase the item level of your existing epic items. This means that each week, you can become a little more powerful, hopefully allowing you to kill that boss that has eluded you thus far. There will be a bit of a game in trying to decide when to upgrade your gear versus hoping for a new piece to drop from a raid boss, but our plan is that even heroic gear can be upgraded slightly in this way.

We won't allow you to upgrade Raid Finder gear so much that it becomes better than normal gear, but imagine if you can increase your item level by around eight points. At this time, we're thinking there won't be gear on the Valor vendors at all, but we'll see how that shakes out. Valor will come primarily from dungeons (including challenge modes) and scenarios. You might earn a little from daily quests and raiding as well, but that won't be as efficient.


I really am looking forward to these changes, but my only question is why LFR will still be droping Purple gear? We all know that LFR is not epic at all and only purpose is to allow players who want to casually raid do so. That being said LFR should reward gear yes, but not epic quality gear.

LFR should only reward blue quality gear. It doesn't make any sense to say that we wan't to bring back the epicness of epic boss loot and then make purples so easy to get in raid enviorment that is designed to be less than easy.

Blizzard has stated it themselves that LFR is suppose to be entry level raiding that will make people want to get into normal modes and eventually into harder modes. You are not making them do either of those things if they can get all the epic loot they want as well as give them ilevel scaling with the proposed new valor system.
You know there's more to an epic item besides the color of the text in the chat log right? If they changed all the heroic DS items to be white would that make them any less epic?
03/27/2012 04:00 PMPosted by Jibjub
You know there's more to an epic item besides the color of the text in the chat log right? If they changed all the heroic DS items to be white would that make them any less epic?

That didn't make any sense at all.
The color of the loot does NOT matter. Really if LFR loot was blue but had the exact same stat it would have had, people would still use it.

The only game effect that loot color really have is on enchanting mats. Expect to not be able to get the best enchants without paying a fortune in the first tier of MoP.
#1 the lfr is for casual players to raid not for players to raid casually #2 why would lfr drop lower ranked stuff then heroics when your downing harder bosses then heroics that makes little sense #3 i hope this isnt the case butyou kinda sound elitist in saying "you don't raid you don't deserve anyhting" which can be roughly tanslated to "you have a life and don't have enough time to play this game you don't deserve stuff" #4MoP isnt out yet so we really don't know whats going on beta is in early stages. and #5 make it pink what difference does it make?


We all know that LFR is not epic at all and only purpose is to allow players who want to casually raid do so. That being said LFR should reward gear yes, but not epic quality gear.
You do realize that the same could be said for normal mode raiding? And if we did that, then ONLY heroic raids would drop epics. After all... that normal mode stuff is not really a challenge, by comparrison to the heroics. Honestly, where would it end?

Simple answer: Raiding in any form still represents a reasonable enough commitment to award the epics (purples)... particularly since ilevel matters MUCH more than item color anyway.

If you don't believe that, let's see you do some raiding in some "full-on-purple" vanilla gear!!
The ilvl I think is sufficient for this. I agree with the whole I wish Epic was Epic because it did lose that stigma after vanilla. But how many colors would you really want them to use. 1 color per tier of gear, 1 color per tier of pvp gear, 1 color per tier of raid finder gear. or a revolving color where the highest ilvl item that could currently be acquired is set to orange and then the next down from the a color until gray, everything below a ilvl of a 85 gray would all be gray.(mass confusion)

Adding a different color or changing the color scheme isn't anything more than aesthetics and doesn't really effect game play. If on inspection they had a in game ilvl instead of just a view of your own from the character menu the higher the number the more EPIC you can feel.
LFR is Raiding. Raiding drops Purple Gear. End of discussion.
03/28/2012 02:42 PMPosted by Holyholly
LFR is Raiding. Raiding drops Purple Gear. End of discussion.
LFR drops epics. My epics are better, but still epics.

I don't see this issue here.
I can't tell you how many sleepless nights I have knowing that there is thousands no millions of players out there wearing epics from LFR. The audacity, the pugnacity, the... the horror of it all knowing that there is innocent epics out there being handled by casuals...ugh it's more horrifying than Kony 2012.
What is so "epic" about killing a scripted boss with two or three abilities and winning a dice roll afterwards?

LFR should only reward blue quality gear. It doesn't make any sense to say that we wan't to bring back the epicness of epic boss loot and then make purples so easy to get in raid enviorment that is designed to be less than easy.


I would expect lfr to be epic, as well as 5m heroics (since the 5m gear has already been datamined, and it's epic). Certainly it's completely unreasonable to expect the valor upgrade mechanic (which only works on epic gear) to only be for normal and heroic mode raiders.

I don't care about gear color in general, but if lfr and 5m are going to drop blues, then the valor system needs to be able to upgrade blues as well. I don't see any harm in them dropping epics, though.

Epics have never been epic, not even in classic.
03/28/2012 03:03 PMPosted by Cubcakes
What is so "epic" about killing a scripted boss with two or three abilities and winning a dice roll afterwards?


Because PvP is watching for one ability than either canceling that or using your own. More scripted imo.
03/27/2012 04:00 PMPosted by Jibjub
You know there's more to an epic item besides the color of the text in the chat log right? If they changed all the heroic DS items to be white would that make them any less epic?


They don't because they were made to be that way. Originally, you only got epics by either being very lucky, or completing challenging raid content. Now, you can get epics from crafting, five-mans, and now the raid finder, none of which are challenging in any sense. The only reason the colour doesn't matter anymore is because they were made to not matter anymore. Originally, they were. We want that back. That's all we're saying.
Why do you care?
03/28/2012 02:42 PMPosted by Holyholly
LFR is Raiding.


LFR is raiding like an 85 camping a lvl 1 is PvP. Sure it might fall under the technical definition of "raiding" since it involves more than 5 people (and if you're lucky some may even be at their keyboard!), but it lacks any of the actual elements of raiding, such as coping with fight mechanics and team work.

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