MOP Valor Point change = Bad

General Discussion
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I'm going to advocate that this change is bad for some players. Note, I do raid, and plan to also raid when MoP comes out.

However, there are several persons in my guild that do not raid, or rarely raid. I think a lot of us know some people like that. Be it time commitment, lack of confidence or they generally don't find raiding fun. With valor points not allowing us to purchase current tier gear I think is a big let down for them. I know they still want to acquire gear, maybe not set pieces and specific off set slot pieces that are only available in raids, but generally, the current VP mechanic allows them to get equal gear to raiders for the most part. This change will effectively lock them out of getting ilvl 397 gear (using current normal tier ilvl as an example).

While the argument can be made that if you're not a raider, why do you need raid gear? I don't personally like this argument. WoW has always been about allowing players various options and avenues to experience the game, and allowing VP purchase of current tier level gear was part of that philosophy. I don't think the non-raiders would enjoy accepting the fact that they can't obtain equivalent level gear or being forced to raid to do so.
But, if you consider that a higher level of power (manifested as the higher level of raid loot) to be the rewards of raiding, why should someone who refuses to participate be given the same amount of reward while not putting in the effort?
So its the same argument, if you dont raid, why do you need raid gear?

As I mentioned above, WoW has been about options and being both casual and hardcore friendly. This really steps on the casuals per se and taking away from them what was available in LK and Cata expansions. I feel that the slight differences between current raid gear and VP gear (i.e. more options with raid gear, some slots only raid gear can provide, etc...) are enough to distinguish (or read: enough of an increased reward for raiders) the two groups of players without overly allienating one.

Additionally, I can see that the more casual players will just simply lose interest quicker if they aren't able to acquire the gear which may equate to lost subs. I don't think Blizzard wants that either.
doesnt matter with LFR around these days.. just run LFR for a few weeks till u are geared. VP is no good anyways
03/28/2012 02:32 AMPosted by Neltis
I can see that the more casual players will just simply lose interest quicker if they aren't able to acquire the gear

I don't understand why the more casual player would want gear they would not need to use.

And again, it's all about effort. Where do we draw the line to rewarding those who puts in the extra work? Would you want to raid if the reward is something with +5 more of the primary stat compared to what the VP gear has?
Talk to some of the casuals, they want great gear as much as anyone else does. That's the allure of the game for many of us, among other things of course.

I still raid, because its a nice challenge to kill bosses and work as a team. But even on just the loot side of it, raiding offers many more options for your spec and fills out some of your slots better. I think that is a pretty good additional reward for raiders that non-raiders do not have.

I mean, if I didn't raid, and my gear level was essentially capped out at heroic dungeon level loot, I'd get bored pretty fast. Right now, I'd have a couple months of farming VP to get that extra better loot for my spec, but Blizzard is taking that away in MoP, and thus taking away that extra reason for me to continue playing.

I just feel that this change penalizes the more casual player and I don't see why they should be excluded.
they want great gear as much as anyone else does. That's the allure of the game for many of us, among other things of course.


03/28/2012 02:46 AMPosted by Neltis
I just feel that this change penalizes the more casual player and I don't see why they should be excluded

But they are "excluded", as you say, because they chose to exclude themselves. If gear means so much to someone, the reasons to not raid is fast diminishing with the introduction of LFR and cross-server Battle ID raiding.

If I want a Magic Carpet, I must make an effort to level up (and keep) my Tailoring.

If I want an Arena title, I must compete (and win) Arenas.

If I want raid gear, I must raid.
Bottom line: They catered to raiders.

Which is bad. :\

Now we'll just go back to how classic was, where there's nothing to do if you don't raid.
Bottom line: They catered to elitist raider snobs.

Which is bad. :\

Now we'll just go back to how classic was, where there's nothing to do if you don't raid.


Have you read about all the stuff they've added? There will be more to do aside from raiding than ever before.
Personally I like the new system.

03/28/2012 02:38 AMPosted by Amric
I don't understand why the more casual player would want gear they would not need to use.


I see this argument used a lot and its a silly statement. Upgrading and improving your character is the whole point of the game. Better gear is never not needed.
03/28/2012 03:08 AMPosted by Jackjagalos
I think I would stick with the argument. Don't raid? Then you don't need raid gear.

See:
I see this argument used a lot and its a silly statement. Upgrading and improving your character is the whole point of the game. Better gear is never not needed.


Adding that: being competitive with other players opens up more opportunities. It's the principle of the thing.
03/28/2012 02:25 AMPosted by Amric
But, if you consider that a higher level of power (manifested as the higher level of raid loot) to be the rewards of raiding, why should someone who refuses to participate be given the same amount of reward while not putting in the effort?


I know some "casual" players that play this game more then raiders. Yet can't they get a foot in the door because most raiding guilds are already established or don't need the dps/class and spec combo they play.

I now offer you this question: Why do you care what gear another player is in if they aren't playing with you?
With LFR, there's really not much reason to have Valor Point gear.
If you can spend a few hours a week doing all your heroics, you can spend 2 hours doing LFR every week.

With the new system, you'll still get to improve your gear, even if it's just LFR gear. I see no real problem.
03/28/2012 02:36 AMPosted by Jondus
doesnt matter with LFR around these days.. just run LFR for a few weeks till u are geared. VP is no good anyways


First off, this has nothing to do with current times.

Second, LFR gear won't be allowed to be upgraded with the new valor system they want to put in.

And third, it sucks. While, sure if you don't raid you don't need that kind of gear, but for people who do raid...it's kinda the carrot on the stick for them. One of course is downing that boss, but the second carrot is the gear.

As for the mention of wrath, the idea was great until they botched it with the late changes just before ICC. Badge gear was just a few pieces, but enough with heroic 5 man gear to get you going. Naxx of course wasn't that hard, and Uld wasn't super hard. The ToC badge gear was ok too, since Triumphs only dropped in ToC. But once they made it open season on Triumphs, it all went bleh from there.
03/28/2012 02:38 AMPosted by Amric
I don't understand why the more casual player would want gear they would not need to use.


Call it stupid if you want but I like having the powerful gear for easier runs of older content and helping friends.
03/28/2012 03:10 AMPosted by Jackjagalos
If someone is trying to get raid gear with the least amount of effort, I don't think they are looking into being all that competitive.


Raid gear are pretty much preferable to Valor gear in most ways. My warlock doesn't even have a decent haste set.

Being competitive means that we actually STAND a chance to get into a raid as opposed to seasoned raiders who have been raiding since they got realm first level 90s.

Your argument is invalid, since... Raid gear is still better.

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