MOP Valor Point change = Bad

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Which they did this expansion.

And who !@#$%ed and moaned about it the entire time?

A portion of the raider population.


A portion of every population will complain about every change, so I'm not sure how that matters.
Don't see the point in the change.

People who like raiding tend to prefer it to any other pve activity. Why push them into 5mans and challenge modes?

People who don't traditionally raid get a ton of 5mans done and run raid finder. Why reduce their fun in limiting them potential gearup avenues.

Strange change to say the least. Seems like it slightly helps long term raid finder runners and punishes heroic raiders by making them do 5mans they wouldn't otherwise run. And crimping the style of the 5man focused players by putting people who don't want to be there in the queue.

Eh... what people complained about was the troll heroics being reused content that removed the old raids and the HoT heroics being overly scripted snooze fests.

Also they started with this idea back in wrath with ToC and the ICC heroics.

Actually, there's been complaints that the new DS 5s and other features of 4.3 cost DS in development.

I hope you're right simply because if things continue as is would be particularly difficult to move to a second tier of LFR without a proper filler to give an extra boost.
you say it hurts the casual players when it seems it hurts you. if you want raid gear that is at a higher item level than dungeons and Raid finder then you raid plain and simple.

The valor gear you get today why it may help you acheive a higher item level its valor gear the good gear is always going to be a token or a token plus gear purchase.

I am a casual player i am not home in the evenings enough to raid so I use LFR and i run dungeons it won't hurt me that i cant go by a a belt or boots or bracers its not that big of deal

It means you need to put in the work to get the gear


Nope, doesn't hurt me personally. I do raid. And I am okay with my slow progression.
You know, every single minute change that Blizz makes to the game is met with about 90% "omg you suck you're so stupid blizzard" threads, and 10% "I like this change".

Yet somehow WoW is by far and continues to be by far the most popular MMO out there. Hmmmmmmmmm....
Strange change to say the least. Seems like it slightly helps long term raid finder runners and punishes heroic raiders by making them do 5mans they wouldn't otherwise run. And crimping the style of the 5man focused players by putting people who don't want to be there in the queue.


Well raiders typically already run LFD or LFR to VP cap early in a tier this change will just make it so they VP cap when they get new gear as opposed to front loading it all to the beginning of the tier.

A portion of every population will complain about every change, so I'm not sure how that matters.

It matters in the sense that a lot of the venomous "OMG, raid gear is for raiders" who think everyone who doesn't raid should be regulated to 346 heroic gear and the occasional BoE if they have deep pockets are going to be the same people who !@#$% about other avenues of advancement taking away from normal and heroic raiding.

Point being, they should be ignored completely.
How do you get that? If we're in T15 (second MoP tier) and a Guild needs a Shaman half way through and I'm in a good chunk of Valor modded T15 LFR pieces why would I be excluded exactly? I'm only a couple of iLevels behind.
Because a month into the tier there's a shaman out there who is not a couple of iLevels behind and he's going to get picked. By the time you get your gear modded to acceptable levels T16 will be coming out and you'll get to begin the whole song and dance again.

Honestly I think its a huge waste of time having to make up new justice and valor gear each tier, I feel sorry for the developers.

JP gear isn't going anywhere it would seem, and for good reason. if LFR is going to be ilvl dependent then there has to be alternatives to RNG and having deep pockets.
Valor point gear won't be needed anymore. The original point of these gear vendors was to give people some consolation rewards if thr RNG gods were against them during normal raiding.

With MoP we'll have 2 or 3 different raids (LFR ready), challenge mode dungeons, interesting dailies, heroics, world bosses and crafting. That's plenty of ways to get gear if you aren't raiding normal modes or higher.

LFR pretty much made the valor point system obsolete. Don't forget that MOP is introducing the ability to get bonus rolls on gear.

A portion of every population will complain about every change, so I'm not sure how that matters.

It matters in the sense that a lot of the venomous "OMG, raid gear is for raiders" who think everyone who doesn't raid should be regulated to 346 heroic gear and the occasional BoE if they have deep pockets are going to be the same people who !@#$% about other avenues of advancement taking away from normal and heroic raiding.

Point being, they should be ignored completely.


Which they won't because they're one of the extremely vocal minority groups that Blizzard seems to listen too, far far too often.
I have a slightly different point of view here. I primarily PvP as you can tell from the gear I am currently wearing.

I feel this could possibly, though not necessarily, push raiding gear over the top in PvP with the newer built in "PvP Defense".
Having enough of an edge by upgrading your tier far enough beyond the already lower PvP tier gear will at least be an option near the later seasons of MoP.

Essentially you could end up being required to gear up with Heroic Raid gear that is upgraded with Valor in order to compete. As is Heroic Raid gear will already be approximately 1.5 tiers higher than CP gear. If Valor gives you even a 0.5 tier boost, Heroic Raiders will have 2 tiers beyond the top PvP players.

I don't know if this will be a problem but its something I hope Blizzard considers in their development of the new use for Valor.
I feel this could possibly, though not necessarily, push raiding gear over the top in PvP with the newer built in "PvP Defense".
Having enough of an edge by upgrading your tier far enough beyond the already lower PvP tier gear will at least be an option near the later seasons of MoP.


I didn't think of this...

On a flip side, is the PVP gear going to be able to be altered in this way as well?
If so, will this force PVPers into the PVE environment against their will?
03/28/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Ronduwil
How do you get that? If we're in T15 (second MoP tier) and a Guild needs a Shaman half way through and I'm in a good chunk of Valor modded T15 LFR pieces why would I be excluded exactly? I'm only a couple of iLevels behind.
Because a month into the tier there's a shaman out there who is not a couple of iLevels behind and he's going to get picked. By the time you get your gear modded to acceptable levels T16 will be coming out and you'll get to begin the whole song and dance again.


Seriously? That's your argument? So your saying that presently you can be on par with a Normal DS Raiding Shaman by using Valor only? LOL OK. A DS Normal player will be in full 397 in the time it takes you to get 3 pieces of Valor so what's different?

Guilds recruit all the time and they regularly take players in less than optimal gear if they seem to be decent and play a needed class. Attendance is the most important thing. A player 5 iLevels behind is nothing.
As a relatively new raider, I feel that some "RAIDERS" are elitists and look down upon the casual player {or newbie raider in my case} (as some of the comments [Amric] in this post indicate). Also what difference does it make to you if someone you don't play with has decent gear. Do you feel threatened that your elitist status is in jeopardy. This game is for everyone who wants to play it. How much time they put into it is a matter of choice and taking away the opportunity to grind valor to upgrade your gear is a slap in the face of those who don't have the opportunity to raid with good raid teams. Correct me if I'm wrong but LFR gear is not as good as valor token gear. Blizzard will be making a mistake and alienating a significant segment of their players if they make this change.
Honestly, raiding is only one facet of the game and I don't think it deserves its own rewards unique to it. Any more than any other facet of the game. Some people don't enjoy it. However, the point of this game, in the end, is aquiring loot. It should be doable through whatever avenue you put the time into.

On a flip side, is the PVP gear going to be able to be altered in this way as well?
If so, will this force PVPers into the PVE environment against their will?


The only thing going to be remotely good in PvP if they implement the system right are legendary weapons which are going to be extremely rare.

For those of you crying about not getting raid quality loot from a vendor. Start raiding.

If not upgrade your LFR Gear slightly or Heroic Gear or what have you. Do challenge modes. Go Pikachu crazy.Play Wowfarmville. Do dailies. Earning your raid gear is a good thing.
Seriously? That's your argument? So your saying that presently you can be on par with a Normal DS Raiding Shaman by using Valor only? LOL OK. A DS Normal player will be in full 397 in the time it takes you to get 3 pieces of Valor so what's different?


I call Kodo Dung on this one.

My main set FINALLY replaced the shield with the LFR version and am still using several LFR pieces. I had my VP gearing done over 2 months ago and finished my offset for VP 2+ weeks ago. So, I've gotten ALL of my VP stuff done for two sets and am still several pieces from full 397.

VP is a far faster method of gearing up needed alts or new raiders than anything that's been previously available.
I'm cool with participation trophies.

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