Dev Watercooler – MoP Looting Explained

General Discussion
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Here’s how the new Raid Finder system will work in Mists of Pandaria:

If you want to save up your Charms for heroic bosses, go for it.

Please explain?
I like the idea of this. Sounds cool guys :D
I think its pretty stupid to randomly choose who wins loot but at the same time they run the risk of that said item being useless to them so they need to vender it. which in turns means they will not need the boss or will only be looking for one drop. Now like you stated, Valor points gave people a reason to stay to the end because they knew if they racked up enough valor they could get a !@#$ piece of gear that might be better than they're already %^-* piece of gear so they can actually participate in normal or heroic raids. Since people won't take you to pug with them if you just have heroic blues that were upped a few item levels. I highly doubt I will be playing as often since I don't have time to waste my life away all day playing wow. I liked being able to come home from work, run a few HoTs or LFR, get valor and save up for an upgrade, and get off. Now you want people to waste time in the world of warcraft or to run all your old content or do this or do that. Yes its a good idea, but you're going to annoy people with this. The only people who won't be annoyed will probably be the hardcore raiders. And if you think about it, gearing multiple 90s will be such a pain in the !@# it won't even be worth the time (unless you're into that thing) so less people will be playing your content.
Look idc, I will still do the same thing... get off work, join a quick lfr, get useless valor, get off. But whatever, if I find it too difficult to enjoy the game as I do now or have in the past I will simply go back to swtor or rift.
Anyways thats just my personal opinion on the subject, and none of us will really know how it is until it happens.
The boss dies.
Each player has a chance to win loot, independent of the other players.
For each player who wins loot, the game randomly assigns them a spec-appropriate item from that boss’s loot table. This subset contains only items that the game (meaning the designers in this case) thinks are appropriate for your class and current spec.
Notice that you aren’t rolling Need or Greed. You don’t have an option to Pass. The game just says “Take this.”
You can’t trade this item, or that would defeat the purpose of removing the social pressure on groups of strangers. If you don’t want the item, you are free to vendor, delete, or disenchant it.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, someone doing LFR with 22 players who are ineligible for loot will have the exact same chance of receiving loot as they would in any other run? Could this mean I won't have to do a unique LFR run for each one of our raiders?!? If so, I love you guys.
Q1. Is the quantity of loot static at 4 for 25 man / 2 for 10 man?
The post only addressed LFR loot so there is no 10-man option. Also as far as I could tell the quantity of loot is entirely dependent on RNG. If 25 people roll high then 25 people get loot. If 25 people roll low then no loot drops.

Q2.If not static, could all 25 people in a raid technically win boss from a single boss?
Looks that way.

Q3. If not static, can less or more people than the cap win loot? (ie. sometimes 3 win on 25, sometimes 4 win, sometimes 1 wins)
I don't know where this "cap" is coming from. As far as I can tell from the post there is no cap.

Q4. If it is capped (note: IF) then how can you say that one person winning loot does not effect others chances to win loot? This is very confusing as it is technically not true being that it is impossible to handle all rolls simultaneously so someone will always win out over another person based on what orders rolls are handles by the game.
You can't. That's why I'm pretty sure there is no cap.

Note that this only applies to LFR loot. Normal raid loot will continue to be distributed as it always has been. The reason they have to do LFR this way is because there is no incentive for anyone to behave fairly with regards to loot distribution.
03/27/2012 02:36 PMPosted by Katsup
I think its pretty stupid to randomly choose who wins loot

that's exactly how it is now but with a fancy Need or Greed button.
This is what i would like to see answered. If it is possible that everyone receives loot then you've implemented a good system. The way it's explained, I assume this is how it should work

Otherwise, Bringing that extra hunter would hurt your theoretical chance of winning loot

There is no chance that anyone in the group will effect what items you get it all depends on what the boss drops.
Can we get an answer as to why it is ok for PvP to get what gear they want as fast as they earn points but PvE has to be random? I mean its only fair that either PvP needs to be random as well or PvE needs to be a purchase system.
Im hoping valor will still offer some type of gear even if it is a tier lower then current content. I'm not a raider so chain running heroic dungeons so I can purchase valor gear is perfect for me.

This change is a problem for me.
This is going to end badly:
Selling Run through Heroic Raids, Bring your Charms and get double the loot!
03/27/2012 02:35 PMPosted by Rubidium
Here’s how the new Raid Finder system will work in Mists of Pandaria:

If you want to save up your Charms for heroic bosses, go for it.

Please explain?

Explain what?

I'm guessing the Charms don't have expiration timers or stack limits, in which case if you wanted to continue doing dailies "in case you need gear for your third spec" or if you get lucky one week and don't need to use them at all, you can still save it for next week, at which point you will have 2 instead of one.
03/27/2012 02:05 PMPosted by Silthania
Why does Valor need to exist in any form?

To give you some reward when the loot you want doesn't drop.

Also, it's a good policy to encourage raiders to keep doing heroic dungeons. A bigger pool of players shortens queue times. And having experienced players in there makes the runs smoother. As time goes on, you get more and more of the weaker players in there, so having raiders counteracts that.

The flaw in that rationale is the assumption that those experienced players will continue to slog through content they find uninteresting.

The alternative, of course, is to weigh the net enjoyment from raiding *plus* all of the support activities they've tacked on and find something more enjoyable to do with your time if it falls on the wrong side of the ledger.
You guys do realize how hypocritical your statements are right?

We understand some players are interested in off-spec or transmogrification loot, and we will consider future changes to the system to accommodate those desires. However, we’re not sure fundamentally that Raid Finder is the best avenue for acquiring that loot. You would either need to take it from another player who actually desires it for their main spec, or a conversation would have to take place to make sure nobody else needed it more than you do.

I'm pretty sure that considering the last bajillion times you've commented about the new LFR is that you AREN'T competing with other players. Hell, it's said 5-6 times in this blog post.

So, in what way is getting gear for our offspecs detrimental to the rest of the players?

In another thread, it said that the LFR system will duplicate an item that drops if 2 players of the same class/spec win loot and it's the only appropriate item for both of them. A BLUE POSTER SAID THIS.

So, again, how exactly is this taking loot from another player?

Just allow us to set a role in LFR groups apart from the role we are playing if we want, to roll on loot appropriate to our set role.

If not, you'll have tons of negative feedback, not from this, but from the people complaining about outrageous queue times again.

I raid as a healer for my DPS gear. I know that doesn't make sense, but it does at the same time. I just always enter with someone who is DPSing and wants healing gear, and we roll for each other. We both still have a 1 on 1 chance as everyone else, just I'm healing since I like it, and he's DPSing cause he likes it.

I still want GOOD DPS gear, whereas he still wants GOOD healing gear. Not necessarily for raiding, but for grouping, and fun runs of non-current raids, ut still challenging. (For instance, BWD right now)
03/27/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Frostblade
I think its pretty stupid to randomly choose who wins loot

that's exactly how it is now but with a fancy Need or Greed button.

Yes I know but that was misinterpreted. yes it is random now but we get to SEE what is randomly being given out and we get to DECIDE if we want it or not. Is it an upgrade? No? greed.
Now they want to make it like okay press shift + J, go to the boss, its loot, click your class, find the gear that fits your spec, thats what you have a chance at getting (thats the cool part), NOT everyone in LFR will win a piece of gear from a boss. But if you are so lucky that you actually do win a piece theres a chance it will be vender trash for you. which I understand that its somewhat like that now, but I like the idea of seeing my look before I decide if I want it or not.
Overall this sounds like a great system. I noticed two things that would be changed as a consequence of the new system that were not discussed:

Without the ability to roll greed or disenchant on items, Enchanters will be disenchanting less often in LFR raids than we were before (assuming somebody didn't need every item). This means that 1) We will have to disenchant more items outside of LFR in order to get our guild achievements for disenchanting, and 2) There will be fewer disenchanting mats in the general population, and thus fewer mats in circulation in the auction house, leading to higher enchanting prices. I could understand if Blizzard didn't care much about point 1. I'm curious to see how point 2 will play out over time though. I think the in-game economy is a fascinating topic since it can vary from realm to realm, and I'd love to see a Ghostcrawler blog on that topic some time.

World Bosses
It was mentioned that unlike the old world bosses, increasing the number of players taking on a world boss does not decrease the chance of any one player obtaining loot, the point being to encourage large groups. I assume this is meant to be 10 to 20 players, but hey, if you have more people on, why not bring them along if they're available. The more the merrier, right? Let's have our whole 25 man raid guild summon in for the boss. Lets include our alternates and bring it up to 30 or 35. Ah, what the heck, let's invite some random guy we found in Stormwind who Joe likes. May as well make a 40 man group provided we can fill the slots before our rival guild takes out the boss. Since you've been leaning away from the 40 man model for years, I'm going to assume 40 people is overkill. I'm going to even assume that 10 to 25 of those 40 could be minimally participating and the boss still goes down. And if that's the case...

Let's say the top guild on my realm found the world boss and has a summoner in place ready to bring the group. The guild has players online and ready to go, and nobody else is around to tag the boss in the next few minutes. The guild knows they can take the boss with X players. So they begin "selling" slots via trade or via less public channels until they have 40-X slots sold, or the boss looks like it may be in danger of being tagged by another group. The players who bought slots to the boss fight can sit back, do nothing, and (potentially, but not at the expense of the guild) win loot. The guild may even TELL them to do nothing, for fear of messing up the fight. A very profitable endeavor for the guild. They win loot and gold. And an easy gear-up for the paying players, but trivializing the content.

I'm curious if this is behavior Blizzard considers unlikely, or if they think it's acceptable. I remember the original world bosses were a source of great strife to the point where it became official policy that players weren't allowed to interfere with another group's efforts to take down the boss. I assume the new bosses won't have such mechanics that made the policy necessary, but I wonder if the GM tickets generated by unhappy players, or even scammed players, will become overwhelming as people say "I DIDN'T GET MY GOLD" or "I PAID MY GOLD BUT THE GROUP DISBANDED BEFORE THEY KILLED THE BOSS". It might be necessary to establish some new GM policies.
03/27/2012 02:17 PMPosted by Shendor
As it pertains to off-spec, I'm translating the replies I've seen so far as "What if I want to play as a different spec but don't want to take the same kind of time in gearing my toon as I did for my main spec?" The answer is: tough. The reason you won't be able to get your off-set gear is because you're not filling that role in the raid. If you want that gear, fill that role; if you're not geared enough to fill that role, then craft and run heroics like you're supposed to.

Except that you almost certainly will be able to work the system to get off-spec gear even if you don't have the gear to actually fill that role in LFR yet. Most likely you can queue as DPS and then just dps in a tank/healer spec to get the type of loot you want. If you already have tank/healer gear, then queue as DPS and just do whatever dps you can in your tank/healer gear. If you think you can get carried as more than just a bad dps you could also try queueing as a tank or healer for a faster queue time and then doing an ineffective job once you get in there or just ignoring the role you are supposed to be doing and dps instead.

Ultimately, it seems like people are going to work the system so that they actually get loot for the spec they want, so it would make the experience better for everyone if Blizzard just gives people the options to pick a different "gear spec" from their current "raid spec".
This is particularly the case when the tier sets are available on the Valor vendors. We think killing dragons and ransacking their hoard is more epic than shopping at the magic armor store, so we want to shift back toward boss kills being the primary source of epic PvE gear.

Ugh. What this will really cause is a few people will really get well geared in the early expansion then set ridiculously high ilevel standards to get into "their" raids while the rest of us are stuck working for Valor to receive minor boosts in power. Everyone who is not lucky to be in one of the early raiding groups will be forced to wallow through the same dungeons over and over all expansion with little chance to raid.

Don't go this route, Blizzard. At least the current system allows people to get geared to raid at a reasonable pace.

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