Blizzard, Warlock Tanks is needed!

Warlock
Prev 1 6 7 8 11 Next
04/09/2012 08:11 PMPosted by Valiariant
The reason druids feral was split up was because it was a tank AND melee dps spec and it is damn near impossible to balance so they split it.


Yes, I know why DRUIDS were split up. I even agree with it, though it does mean the end of my bearcat. I also noticed that you didn't even attempt to answer why on earth they'd choose to REMOVE a spec instead of just ADDING one. You blathered on about how "unfair" it would be to have it on a glyph (again) and about how DKs should have 6 specs, about vengeance (again) but didn't address the question I posed.

I'll take that as "I don't actually have an answer, I'm just arguing because OMG warlock tanks are a big change and thus a stupid idea".

You want a serious answer to your ongoing vengeance whine? If blizzard implement tanking for warlocks, be it in a glyph or in a new spec, they will need to address a couple of points. The main one being an avoidance system so that they're not completely mitigation based (and thus extremely OP), the second being both threat and dps normalisation compared to the other tanking specs. They could do this multiple ways, -- implementing "spell vengeance" is only one of those ways. However, they may also choose to tweak Archimonde's Vengeance so that when a warlock tank with it reflects damage, the threat generated is increased by X000%. As long as tank swaps can occur "normally" it's irrelevant how they implement this as it's JUST NUMBER TWEAKING.

BTW, in case you weren't aware, there are still issues tank swapping that are entirely due to vengeance. Once you're at a full stack, if your partner tank doesn't have any at all, it's almost guaranteed that you'll pull off him (if you need to attack the same target) after his taunt ends unless you stop attacking and watch your threat. This isn't an issue late in the fight, because by then both tanks should have a full stack, but it's fairly obvious in the FIRST tank swap of a couple of fights.

Now, would you like to take a stab at answering my original question?
04/09/2012 05:34 PMPosted by Valiariant
It isnt vengeance, vengeance is what makes tanks hit for like 100k+ with death strike, shield of the righteous and shield slam, Archimondes Vengence will do nothing of the sorts.


This will do exactly the same : high numbers returned from high damage suffered.

There's number tweaking, of course, but the design is strictly the same. Expect that Archimonde Vengeance allows more customization and skill.

Vengeance is an enrage effect and can be dispelled.


Which makes no difference in PvE.

Archimondes Vengeance, if your hit with lets say, a 100k hit in end game MoP content, it would in turn do 30k damage back to the attacker. Now with tank Vengeance you would get a 5k increase in attack power so you are hitting harder, your not returning damage that they do like a reflect.


It's the exact same thing. I don't know what's happening in your head right now that doesn't let you understand the simple equation :
DAMAGE RECEIVED => CURVE TRANSFER (NEARLY LINEAR) => DAMAGE DONE

Anyway, I don't know why I argue with you. Now you're comparing base DPS + vengeance, to Vengeance of the warlock. Even if we don't look at the numbers, the simple idea of saying "your archimonde vengeance does less damage than my DK" is retarded.

Anyway...

It would be kind of stupid for the warlock tank to not have a form of vengeance and no Archimondes Vengeance is not a form of tank vengence, if you have avoidance that that talent does nothing, but when you have the type of vengeance that is an enrage effect avoidance has a minor effect on it since it stays on you until either you die, have a very LONG avoidance streak for it to be able to completely fall off, or the boss dies.


LOL.

LOL.

LOL.

Wait, you just wrote 12 pages of insults sayings things like "you warlocks don't know the tanking mechanics", and you are actually saying that...

that...

that Vengeance refreshes itself ? x'D

You do realize that each stack is calculated separatedly with its own 20 sec timer right ?

You do realize that avoidance actually nerf your warrior/DK/druide vengeance as much as warlock's ? You do realize that, for being vengeance capped, you need to take your entire life every 2 second as damage ? You do understand that no tank is vengeance capped, right ?

Each hit you avoid is AP lost, you get it, right ?

Oh wow... Good lord. =_=
Nymph, bear my children? I'm a blood elf, they'll be adorable.
04/09/2012 11:40 PMPosted by Nymphcouncil
It isnt vengeance, vengeance is what makes tanks hit for like 100k+ with death strike, shield of the righteous and shield slam, Archimondes Vengence will do nothing of the sorts.


This will do exactly the same : high numbers returned from high damage suffered.

There's number tweaking, of course, but the design is strictly the same. Expect that Archimonde Vengeance allows more customization and skill.

Vengeance is an enrage effect and can be dispelled.


Which makes no difference in PvE.

Archimondes Vengeance, if your hit with lets say, a 100k hit in end game MoP content, it would in turn do 30k damage back to the attacker. Now with tank Vengeance you would get a 5k increase in attack power so you are hitting harder, your not returning damage that they do like a reflect.


It's the exact same thing. I don't know what's happening in your head right now that doesn't let you understand the simple equation :
DAMAGE RECEIVED => CURVE TRANSFER (NEARLY LINEAR) => DAMAGE DONE

Anyway, I don't know why I argue with you. Now you're comparing base DPS + vengeance, to Vengeance of the warlock. Even if we don't look at the numbers, the simple idea of saying "your archimonde vengeance does less damage than my DK" is retarded.

Anyway...

It would be kind of stupid for the warlock tank to not have a form of vengeance and no Archimondes Vengeance is not a form of tank vengence, if you have avoidance that that talent does nothing, but when you have the type of vengeance that is an enrage effect avoidance has a minor effect on it since it stays on you until either you die, have a very LONG avoidance streak for it to be able to completely fall off, or the boss dies.


LOL.

LOL.

LOL.

Wait, you just wrote 12 pages of insults sayings things like "you warlocks don't know the tanking mechanics", and you are actually saying that...

that...

that Vengeance refreshes itself ? x'D

You do realize that each stack is calculated separatedly with its own 20 sec timer right ?

You do realize that avoidance actually nerf your warrior/DK/druide vengeance as much as warlock's ? You do realize that, for being vengeance capped, you need to take your entire life every 2 second as damage ? You do understand that no tank is vengeance capped, right ?

Each hit you avoid is AP lost, you get it, right ?

Oh wow... Good lord. =_=


Your wrong again lol. I never said it refreshes itself, it does build up because parry and block are not complete avoidance mechanics anymore so it will stay high unless you tank swap, and even then warriors dont have to worry about that. With Archimondes Vengeance you only return a very small ammount, 5%, unless you activate the ability and then it goes on cd so then you dont return ANYTHING what so ever. What are you going to do until you get the talent anyways since its a level 90 talent and all other vengeance abilities you get when you go into your specialization, which for most of the tanks is at level 10. So i guess warlocks can only tank at level 90? Since they cant even out threat their voidwalker or voidlord anymore with the glyph. So how is that 5% damage returned going to keep them attacking you? Also when you avoid when you have vengeance it deminishes at a very slow rate, so slow that your most likely going to keep your ap through a dodge chain, since parry and block still do damage to you so you your still gaining vengeance.

The spec would have to either be one or the other because Blizzard isnt balancing 2 specs into 1 anymore, they say its too much trouble and it is never balanced. So for demo to be a tank spec it would have to be a full tank spec. Does that answer your question that so many people have answered already?
You wouldn't need vengence before level 90. Current takes wouldn't.

Vengence is to help deal with the massive influx of DPS that DPS classes get in end game gear.
04/09/2012 09:10 PMPosted by Ferlion
Also they can fix the crit bug easier than most other things since its only the dk that is taking crits.


Which has nothing to do with it. It doesn't matter if it's just one class who has the bug. It's not a constant problem, so it's not something that's easily found.

PvP could potentially be an issue, except of course that unlike actual vengeance, it scales with incoming damage instead of the health of the tank.


Actual tank vengeance scales off of damage you recieve, the cap is from your total health.

The bug should be easily found since so many dk's went on the tank forums class forums and general forum and posted information on it. So they know about it, they can fix it, but they wont because their mindset at this point is "Mists will fix it."
04/09/2012 10:54 PMPosted by Tereya
I used to main a Warlock before Blizz made them suck. I've been asking for tanking since Vanilla. So add me to that list of people who want Warlock tanking. This just in: There are more of us FOR it than against it.


This just in, there are very few warlocks that come to the forums to say whether or not they want it. Most that I talk to say its a stupid idea and if you want to tank just roll a dk since it will do the exact thing your looking to do and its already set up and blizzard doesnt have to change anything at all.
You wouldn't need vengence before level 90. Current takes wouldn't.

Vengence is to help deal with the massive influx of DPS that DPS classes get in end game gear.


I know that, but it would be odd that all other tanks get it at 10 or 56 depending on your class and they are able to do more damage early on and the warlock would have to wait until 90 to get what people think is the warlock form of vengeance though it isnt. If you guys can prove me wrong by a blue post go ahead, direct me there, but until anyone does just move on and accept that warlocks wont be tanks except for that time that the tank didnt hit his shield slam to reduce the damage of the next ability and you have to be ready with this glyph to tank a whole 5 seconds.

The glyph has been nerfed so do something more constructive like trying to help work out destro playstyle HoG and haunt usage. You guys are hellbent on trying to "prove me wrong" when you havent done anything of the sorts.
04/10/2012 02:36 PMPosted by Valiariant
I used to main a Warlock before Blizz made them suck. I've been asking for tanking since Vanilla. So add me to that list of people who want Warlock tanking. This just in: There are more of us FOR it than against it.


This just in, there are very few warlocks that come to the forums to say whether or not they want it. Most that I talk to say its a stupid idea and if you want to tank just roll a dk since it will do the exact thing your looking to do and its already set up and blizzard doesnt have to change anything at all.


That's funny, because when people thought it was happening there were over 20 threads with over 100 posts each of people in support of it. Not to mention the many polls on different websites that had Warlock tanking in favor.

And no, I don't want to roll a deathknight. Warlock tanking was different than a DK, Deathknights are, IMO, boring.
04/10/2012 02:32 PMPosted by Valiariant


Which has nothing to do with it. It doesn't matter if it's just one class who has the bug. It's not a constant problem, so it's not something that's easily found.

PvP could potentially be an issue, except of course that unlike actual vengeance, it scales with incoming damage instead of the health of the tank.


Actual tank vengeance scales off of damage you recieve, the cap is from your total health.

The bug should be easily found since so many dk's went on the tank forums class forums and general forum and posted information on it. So they know about it, they can fix it, but they wont because their mindset at this point is "Mists will fix it."


That's not how bugs work. It doesn't matter how many DK's recorded it. The thing that was causing the problem still had to be found.
04/10/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Valiariant
it does build up because parry and block are not complete avoidance


I'd be curious to know what is not "complete avoidance" about parry.

Since they cant even out threat their voidwalker or voidlord anymore with the glyph.


The bug where your voidwalker would pull threat to you because he had 500% threat even with the desactivated ability was patched.

since parry and block still do damage to you so you your still gaining vengeance.


...

That looks like a running gag except it's not. :(

Is this a new innovative way of trolling people ? :(
I'm still in full support for lock tanking! God forbid we want something just for wanting it and you know... because it looks fun.

-gasp-
Sigh, another tank dusted off his lock for lfr, and fills a thread with his "warlocks can't tank, prove me wrong".

No blizzard hasn't said warlocks are tanks, and they have more so said they don't want them to tank. Just emergency oh crap tank died, saved the day type thing.

However Valiariant, you ask for people to prove wrong about locks tanking, get on beta use the glyph and go tank end game content JUST LIKE OTHER LOCKS DOING THAT VERY THING RIGHT NOW.

The fact is warlocks can and are tanking this way, does it need tuning and better balancing, of course what doesn't in this game?

Enough already from all the threatened tanks, that have lock alts, and are jumping on them to say "I don't want tanking, you should a rolled a tank if that's what you wanted to do"

Newsflash, the game changes as do players desires, so many why did you roll a lock to begin with comments. Here's a reason, I rolled a lock cuz it had the potential to out dps every other dps spec in game, unless that other toon also rolled a pure dps. That doesn't work anymore does it, you know why? The game changed.
Let's even forget locks specifically, can anyone give some logical, at least half valid reason that it would be a bad thing if pures were given a secondary role?

And please don't try the "i will be forced by my raid group to perform a role i don't want to do", that's not an issue with your class, it's an issue with who you choose to play the game with.
I've wanted to tank on my lock since Illidan in BC. I got a taste for lock tanking then and i'd look forward to lock tanking more then any other new thing that will come out in MoP.
warlock tanking is !@#$ing stupid and will completely %^-* up pve dps

I don't want to tank, I rolled a pure so I don't have to !@#$ing tank
Why would blizzard add a tanking spec for warlocks? Locks would be by far the least represented tank, it's just not necessary.

Also to add to that, we don't really want another unkillable spec in pvp do we? *cough* blood dk.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum