GM's do not understand reason behind tickets

Customer Support
As you may know, there are quite a few looting problems in LFR, and I recently opened a GM ticket for this after losing 5 pieces of gear in LFR to 3 people who openly said they would vendor it if another person in the group didn't trade them for an item they were in need of.

Here is my ticket, word for word: (servers will be covered to "protect" the guilty)

"[Removed] from "Server" and [Removed]from "Server" exploited the look system.
First [Removed],
He needed on a DPS ranged trinket, when he himself is feral, then went on to trade it so he could have the teir token piece to himself.
Then [Removed],
He needed a shoulder teir THAT I NEEDED!!!!!!! From Hagra, and won. He then flaunted it in front of all the other people that needed it, and linked his shoulder, which are the 390 shoulders dropped from Deathwing (or maybe spine)
I feel cheated and undervalued. Help!"

So I got a response from a GM that looked something like this:

"Greetings,

Thank you for reporting this issue to the World of Warcraft Game Master Department.

The Game Master support department strives to meet every request for restoration or reimbursement, however, there are situations in which we are unable to assist. Be aware that we are often unable to redistribute loot in situations where items have been looted incorrectly or against the group's wishes.

In general, the Game Master Department will not intervene in disputes about loot distribution.

The Need Before Greed loot system empowers players to advertise their level of interest for an item by choosing two values: "need" and "greed." It is the right of each party member to choose the value of an item as it pertains to their desires. While opinions may differ amongst the group in some cases, such situations are expected to be resolved via party discussion rather than through Game Master intervention.

When using the Raid Finder, there is an additional element to ensure that items go to players who are actively filling their selected roles. Characters whose class can fill a role matching the intended spec of an item (tank, healer, physical DPS, magical DPS) will gain 100 points to their roll when choosing Need. Please note that the system has limitations; it cannot detect the exact stats a class prefers or the current spec of the player. To this end, we've implemented equip restrictions on many items to lock them to certain classes.

Also please note that this system will only allow players to roll on items from the first kill of each boss per week. While you are free to kill the same boss multiple times using the Raid Finder, only the first from that week will be eligible for loot.

We apologize for any inconvenience you've recently experienced while in a Dungeon/Raid Finder group, however, we will be unable to assist with the removal or redistribution of this item.

For additional information, please review our article on "Ninja Looting" at http://us.blizzard.com/support/article/17761

Thank you for your time and understanding.

Regards,

Game Master [removed]
Customer Services
Blizzard Entertainment
http://www.blizzard.com/support"

Well, that's helpful if I was talking about a ninja-looting claim, but I'm not. I'm talking about exploiting a system implemented by Blizzard to "help" players gear up.So then I opened a follow up ticket (again word for word):

"My ticket is in no way about ninja-looting. It is about exploiting a system which you have implemented into the Raid Finder. People are selecting need for an item they DO NOT need. After winning the roll they will openly say "I do not need this item, but i'll trade it for the leggings I need that previously dropped." This system is rigged for druid DPS because druids can be melee or ranged DPS so they are able to roll for melee and ranged trinkets. I'm not asking for reimbursment. I want a fix."Guess what I got...

No I'm serious take a guess.

No you're wrong, I got the same exact text WORD FOR WORD from a different GM.

There wasn't even a sign of "I'll send in a report to the designers" like when I ticket about other exploits. So now I ask you, Customer Support, can you at least have the courtesy to lie that you sent a report to the designers. You don't even have to if you feel its not worth it. Just lie! It will make me feel better at heart that I think you are trying to fix it!
that is not something they can help with it's currently the way LFR is designed in this system and they won it fair and square in a need befroe greed system and can do whatever they want with the loot.
Well, I can see them doing what ever they want when they choose greed, but when they choose need, that means they genuinely need that piece of gear. Greed was implemented because they want to vendor it. Need was implemented so they can use that piece of gear.

I don't know if people just don't understand sufficient English to get it, or if they are just trolling those who are actually trying to gear, all I know is it needs to stop.
And if I roll need by accident, or realize shortly after that someone else could get more mileage, should we have no option?
There's nothing to "send to the developers". The person won a roll, fair and square. They can do whatever they want with the loot, including vendoring the item.

That's why you got the response you got. You are complaining about loot distribution. You received a response that details why they will not get involved in loot disputes.
Your issue is not with Blizzard, it's with the players. Blizzard can't force people to play nice, unfortunately. However, we can choose not to run with people - either by using the ignore option, or by joining guild runs.

Anytime I run any sort of random - raid, dungeon, whatever, I expect to lose on every item. That way, if I win an item, it's a bonus.
There wasn't even a sign of "I'll send in a report to the designers"


Because that is not what Game Masters do, and never have. They are not liaisons to the devs and they are not there to second guess or override the way the devs designed the game. Right now the system is very simple - if Blizzard gives you the need button to click on, you have done nothing wrong if you click it. Why would Blizzard punish players for doing exactly what Blizzard themselves allows them to do?

That said, the devs are WAAAY ahead of you -

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4736886/Dev_Watercooler_-_Mists_of_Pandaria_Looting_Explained-3_27_2012
04/09/2012 08:33 PMPosted by Passacaglia
Well, I can see them doing what ever they want when they choose greed, but when they choose need, that means they genuinely need that piece of gear. Greed was implemented because they want to vendor it. Need was implemented so they can use that piece of gear.


No, when the Need button is lit up, you are allowed to click Need, regardless of your reasoning. Until they invent a computer that can read the thoughts of the player behind the keyboard, there is nothing Blizzard (or Bioware or Trion or EA or any other game company) can do about it.
They won the loot abiding by the loot rules that are predefined by Blizzard. By winning the loot they may do what they wish with the loot.

It may not be nice but it is up to the winner of the loot to do what they wish with it.

If you would like to see a change to the looting system I suggest that you post in the Dungeons and Raids forums as the developers do not read the Customer Support forums.
Well, I can see them doing what ever they want when they choose greed, but when they choose need, that means they genuinely need that piece of gear. Greed was implemented because they want to vendor it. Need was implemented so they can use that piece of gear.

I don't know if people just don't understand sufficient English to get it, or if they are just trolling those who are actually trying to gear, all I know is it needs to stop.


That is not how the system works, if you can roll need on an item you are allowed to, it doesn't matter why you think you need it. You can need it to sell it or trade it. You do not get to determine if someone needs an item of not.
they are changing it to make it a lot stricter in MoP see the link maul posted
the developers do not read the forums.


Fix'd

04/09/2012 08:37 PMPosted by Madisón
No, when the Need button is lit up, you are allowed to click Need, regardless of your reasoning. Until they invent a computer that can read the thoughts of the player behind the keyboard, there is nothing Blizzard (or Bioware or Trion or EA or any other game company) can do about it.
They don't need to invent a computer to read people's minds, just invent a program that checks gear.
04/09/2012 08:41 PMPosted by Passacaglia
just invent a program that checks gear.


Some people have 2 specs and gem/enchant the same piece different depending on their role/spec.
04/09/2012 08:41 PMPosted by Passacaglia
They don't need to invent a computer to read people's minds, just invent a program that checks gear.


"Checking gear" does not allow for the possibility of pure DPS classes wanting a second copy of the same piece for different gemming/enchanting. It does not allow for someone wanting to experiment with other stat focuses (foci?), or even other spec/role possibilities.

A computer can never fully understand a reason for someone hitting Need.

Beyond that, you lost the roll. There is nothing that can be done, even if the player never said a word to you and just happily vendored the piece without your knowledge. When you lose a roll, put it our of your mind and move on. These kinds of over-the-top reactions are EXACTLY what people like this want to happen.

If you never want to run with that person again, place them on ignore.
04/09/2012 08:41 PMPosted by Passacaglia
the developers do not read the forums.


Fix'd

04/09/2012 08:37 PMPosted by Madisón
No, when the Need button is lit up, you are allowed to click Need, regardless of your reasoning. Until they invent a computer that can read the thoughts of the player behind the keyboard, there is nothing Blizzard (or Bioware or Trion or EA or any other game company) can do about it.
They don't need to invent a computer to read people's minds, just invent a program that checks gear.


The developers DO read the forums, they read every forum except Customer Support, Tech Support, and New Players. They have made posts about this and have talked about it in interviews.

There are way too many variables to just have a program check gear.
04/09/2012 08:41 PMPosted by Passacaglia
the developers do not read the forums.


Fix'd


The very fact that they are making sweeping changes to the LFR loot system proves your snarky edit to be dead wrong.
04/09/2012 08:41 PMPosted by Passacaglia
the developers do not read the forums.


Fix'd


As for this "clever" fix, you are wrong. Developers read the forums, and are highly involved with player feedback. They do not read the CS Forum (or Tech Support Forum, I believe), as you were told.

04/09/2012 08:39 PMPosted by Lurus
they are changing it to make it a lot stricter in MoP see the link maul posted


As for this, MoP loot is going to be a lot different, but not really "stricter".

Basically, you will be "rolling" against yourself, and winning a piece of loot for yourself will not affect any chance another raid member has to win a piece of loot.
First and foremost, Passacaglia, I apologize that you had a frustrating experience with Looking For Raid. Our looting rules are not perfect and cannot accommodate every factor in distributing loot, including lesser-intentioned players.

That being said, the Game Master department will not intervene with loot redistribution except in the rarest of circumstances. I understand that it can be disheartening to have loot not be distributed as you'd like, but the responses you received are accurate.
04/09/2012 08:27 PMPosted by Passacaglia
There wasn't even a sign of "I'll send in a report to the designers" like when I ticket about other exploits.

Simply put: Game Masters are not liaisons for development. We have avenues for feedback regarding game systems, but the Game Master staff is not one of them. You can provide your own feedback on Looking for Raid through the Dungeons and Raids Forum.

While I can't comment regarding design, I can reference the blog posts our developers have made regarding upcoming potential changes to the LFR loot system: Dev Watercooler - Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained. I recommend reading through it and the information our Community Managers have provided for some insight regarding this subject.
The solution to 99% of the LFR loot issues has already been partially implemented in the game, it boggles my mind why the developers didn't get a freaking clue and do something similar for LFR.

All the holiday bosses have a system where if you already have the item, even if it is in your bank, you can't roll for it again.

For LFR, all they would need to do is that if you already have the item, a need roll doesn't give you the +100 roll bonus. Problem solved.

And for all those people who want to have multiple sets of gear for all 3-4 rolls each class can play, then join the LFR AS THAT SPEC/ROLL, not just whatever has the shortest que.

The LFR loot is SO bad that I've lost rolls to people who wanted the stupid item for transmorg.

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