Guide to Rath Strat AV's (Update Coming Soon)

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BGspecialists.net is another Alliance premade outfit ringing alarm bells about Rath Strat. (Some Alliance premades have been forced to lower themselves to farming the putrid IoC for their bloodthirsty titles.)BG specialists have posted a link to the Rath Strat vent server ---> Bgspecialists/Forum/General/Horde premade AVs so their team can listen in to Rath Strat's every move.BGspecialists also has some cool clips of their AV farming exploits. The clips expose the low-IQ horde element that rush blindly into the BGspecialists meat grinder. Over and over (and over) again.It makes me wonder if at least half of each horde AV team are just afk bots lua scripted to blindly rush to Bal then Van?
04/24/2012 07:04 AMPosted by Laggowndd
BGspecialists.net is another Alliance premade outfit ringing alarm bells about Rath Strat. (Some Alliance premades have been forced to lower themselves to farming the putrid IoC for their bloodthirsty titles.)BG specialists have posted a link to the Rath Strat vent server ---> Bgspecialists/Forum/General/Horde premade AVs so their team can listen in to Rath Strat's every move.BGspecialists also has some cool clips of their AV farming exploits. The clips expose the low-IQ horde element that rush blindly into the BGspecialists meat grinder. Over and over (and over) again.It makes me wonder if at least half of each horde AV team are just afk bots lua scripted to blindly rush to Bal then Van?


Groups of ppl that have to use spies on other ppls vent BG groups are usually the ones that cant organize anything if their lives depended on it. I know a bunch of you ppl recall a while back of what happened to one dwarf hunter in particular (who shall remain nameless) that tried that a 2nd time. Not against rath strat but against a pug group. Both alliance and horde players alike basically blackballed him.
04/23/2012 09:35 PMPosted by Checkursix
Great thing Rath is doing for the WoW - PVP community. TY to him and all the great leaders we have! Sonny, Xaeva, Devoo, Slayer, Borath, Crazylegs...


Boroth did a good job bringing us back from the edge of defeat against an ally premade last weekend. They killed galv, destroyed both keep towers, and even got iceblood tower before Boroth took control and established a small choke by iceblood graveyard. From there the ally reinforcements gradually wore away and a shammy 5 boxer was sent to icewind bunker and that's what won it for us. Boroth was not the original leader but did an outstanding job the way he stepped up and took over.
AV is purely horde favored?

Did they take out Alliance bridge? Did they make all the alliance guard archers into melee like the horde have?

I have been away awhile, but when I left WoW, it was general knowledge that Alliance had an upper hand in AV due to the bridge choke points and the archer guards requiring they all be killed for ninja caps.

Did they change something


If the alliance has to use the bridge as a choke point, they have already lost. This is because they have to give up 250 reinforcements by abandoning 2 bunkers and Balinda.

Horde tower's have archers, not melee NPC's. The mere fact that you are trying to claim the bunkers have ally archers while the towers have horde melee just goes to show that you are either blatantly lying or you have never even played AV before.

Alliance bunkers do NOT require that you kill all their archers before capping, just like the horde towers, you have to use LoS to preform a cap if you dont feel like killing ONE archer for an easy cap.
Mmmm. In a zerg vs zerg game where people are racing to the boss, the bridge choke point is a huge advantage. But like I said, Horde has changed their meta game to not allow alliance to capatalize on the choke point at bridge. It would be up to alliance to change their meta game to something other than zerg boss, as it is pretty clear that strat is being countered. But again, this is not a "run here, hit rotation, profit" type fix, you gonna have to fight the war.
04/23/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Mintjelly
AV is purely horde favored?

No. It's just different per faction.
Horde just has slower, more sure-fire ways to win.

They can guarantee a win.

Alliance is more risky-rush types. We either win big, or lose horribly.

04/23/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Mintjelly
Did they take out Alliance bridge? Did they make all the alliance guard archers into melee like the horde have?

No, did they take out the Scorched Earth choke at Iceblood? or the choke at Icewing?
The Horde Archers still shoot, they shoot quite well.

04/23/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Mintjelly
I have been away awhile, but when I left WoW, it was general knowledge that Alliance had an upper hand in AV due to the bridge choke points and the archer guards requiring they all be killed for ninja caps.

You can ninja cap with all guards up.

And if you're telling me the bridge choke is the best? You're wrong atm. If Alliance uses their only good choke, we're doing so with our backs to the wall, and 200+ reinforcements behind.

04/23/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Mintjelly
Did they change something, or has Alliance simply adapted no strategy other than Rush BoSS KiLL first? It was /is (barring no changes) clearly favored for Alliance in a zerg vs zerg meta game.

Well, killing the Zerg, kinda killed the Alliance's only truly viable strat. We don't have a "Guaranteed win" strat like Rath strat. Like I said above, we don't really have a good, viable choke outside of the Iceblood, (if we take it) or the Bridge, and the bridge is now a horrible choke option.

04/23/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Mintjelly
Outside of that, it sounds to me like the strategy is so viable as you are "synch" queueing as a premade and getting into pug queues. Which I can understand not wanting to wait Forever to get a game, but to me the most successful sounding part of the strategy is that you get a Huge premade against pugs.

Pretty much, while they claim they "Want competition" they love farming pugs more for easy wins rather than change BG or do an RBG (Heaven forbid you're not against PuGs!)
Rath strat is not a guaranteed win as much as it is a guarantee win verse a rush on boss (strat alone, not necessarily 40manpremade vs pugs). Your strong points and holds are arranged differently. You can mount great pressure on Mid / Galv/ IB from snowfall, but it is generally accepted that nobody cap snowfall and everyone rush forward (or was). Snowfall is a strong point for whoever holds it, zerg strats downplay its importance, not its actual sphere of influence.
04/24/2012 07:04 AMPosted by Laggowndd
BGspecialists.net is another Alliance premade outfit ringing alarm bells about Rath Strat. (Some Alliance premades have been forced to lower themselves to farming the putrid IoC for their bloodthirsty titles.)BG specialists have posted a link to the Rath Strat vent server ---> Bgspecialists/Forum/General/Horde premade AVs so their team can listen in to Rath Strat's every move.


This is what we want. AV should be about PVP, not PVE zerging down bosses. (To be fair, Blizzard made it this way due to the changes they implemented).

Even if we lose to a team like QQ or BGspecialists, they gave us what we want in AV....
PVP!

If anyone facing a Rath Premade needs to listen on on Vent to win instead of adapting, that says more about them then their winning % of their ability to PvP. In the end, we're there because we want to PvP. Win or lose, we got we wanted. A long drawn out turtle between two Premades is going to give both teams what they want:

PvP
HK's
Honor
A good time.

We're prepared to play a 2 hour AV game because we're not there for quick honor or a 100 CP. We're there to crush the Alliance.

From the RP side, Orc culture states that the most honorable thing to do is die in battle.

So...Game On! See ya in the Valley.
04/24/2012 02:05 PMPosted by Rexzoolza
BGspecialists.net is another Alliance premade outfit ringing alarm bells about Rath Strat. (Some Alliance premades have been forced to lower themselves to farming the putrid IoC for their bloodthirsty titles.)BG specialists have posted a link to the Rath Strat vent server ---> Bgspecialists/Forum/General/Horde premade AVs so their team can listen in to Rath Strat's every move.


This is what we want. AV should be about PVP, not PVE zerging down bosses. (To be fair, Blizzard made it this way due to the changes they implemented).

Even if we lose to a team like QQ or BGspecialists, they gave us what we want in AV....
PVP!

If anyone facing a Rath Premade needs to listen on on Vent to win instead of adapting, that says more about them then their winning % of their ability to PvP. In the end, we're there because we want to PvP. Win or lose, we got we wanted. A long drawn out turtle between two Premades is going to give both teams what they want:

PvP
HK's
Honor
A good time.

We're prepared to play a 2 hour AV game because we're not there for quick honor or a 100 CP. We're there to crush the Alliance.

From the RP side, Orc culture states that the most honorable thing to do is die in battle.

So...Game On! See ya in the Valley.


Its like in the RTS game Warhammer Dawn Of War. Where the Commissars sometime yell out *GLORY TO THE FIRST MAN TO DIE......CHARGE!*
04/24/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Mintjelly
Rath strat is not a guaranteed win as much as it is a guarantee win verse a rush on boss (strat alone, not necessarily 40manpremade vs pugs). Your strong points and holds are arranged differently. You can mount great pressure on Mid / Galv/ IB from snowfall, but it is generally accepted that nobody cap snowfall and everyone rush forward (or was). Snowfall is a strong point for whoever holds it, zerg strats downplay its importance, not its actual sphere of influence.


I considered this strategy against Rath, but it was pointed out because Snowfall is neutral, it takes too long for the cap for Alliance to utilize it. Additionally, it's too far from "the action" to prevent the Horde from marching all the way to Vann without opposition.

(Totally off topic... if/when the Alliance Rath group forms up, I'd love to see Rath versus Rath. I think that will definitively resolve any debate on which faction has the advantage in AV. Personally, I feel it's equal but each faction has to use the map in their own way.

Alliance has to play the "open game." Quick strikes and an emphasis on mobility.
Horde has to play the "closed game. Emphasis on defense and an emphasis on battlefield control.

http://www.thechesswebsite.com/chess-strategy/open-closed-chess-game.php)
I started running Rath Strat premades a few weeks ago on my mains and was very happy with the results; when I explained it to my guildmates- trying to get them to come with me and get their honor problems solved- I was met with silence and then, "..... so it's pretty much graveyard camping, right? No thanks."

Fine, whatever. You go run your randoms and maybe win, maybe lose while I'll be over here with honor and conquest in the bank or wearing what it buys. I'll see your Pyrium set and raise you by a Cata set, mmk?
Want to take a moment to thank those of you who are keeping the feedback here positive and constructive. (Even those who do not approve of the strategy, the premade community, etc as you have maintained a productive criticism to which I support and respect)

I also want to thank those of you who have helped report troll posts, harassment, and personal attacks. All but one have been removed and contribute to keeping the thread clean and enjoyable for all as was intended. I have not seen repeat abuse from those posters.

I look forward to continuing to see where some of the theory crafting and strategic counters take us.
I have personally ran rath strat premades on my hunter mostly, but decided to stop for a bit so i can lvl up my pally I had deleted for 2 yrs, now just had it restored a few days ago. In my honest opinion I love running them. I love how theyre run and the strats executed. Even though I myself have personally not experienced a loss in running with rath strat, its the fun factor of forcing some sort of PvP action instead a mindless zerg like both alliance and horde pugs tend to do 90% of the time.
04/24/2012 08:14 PMPosted by Threefingers
I started running Rath Strat premades a few weeks ago on my mains and was very happy with the results; when I explained it to my guildmates- trying to get them to come with me and get their honor problems solved- I was met with silence and then, "..... so it's pretty much graveyard camping, right? No thanks."


It is, but it isn't. Obviously, honor farming is one of the goals.

However, I cannot think of one other "graveyard camper" who openly invites players to use his own resources to counter him. Nor can I think of any other "graveyard camper" who actively discourages his fellow party members from humiliating the opposition with emotes or smack talk. I respect him for that.

With all that said, I dislike being farmed. It's very frustrating to be stuck in a graveyard with no escape and just get repeatedly killed. It's especially frustrating when I get in that position because every other Alliance player in AV ignored my warnings and instructions.

After my experiences the past few weeks, I have come to the conclusion your average Alliance pug PvPer is too stubborn, too unintelligent, and too impatient to ever work together effectively enough as a team to threaten a Rath Strat/ Real ID premade.

I have come to the realization that I cannot fight Rath by myself. The only way I'll ever bloody Rathamus' nose (no offense) is to participate in a counter premade. I'm patiently waiting for the Rath Alliance team to form up so I can get with players that actually want to play together.
04/25/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Paetheas
To the poster from stormstrike alliance, the strat that Rath's premade groups use is called 'Scorched Earth' b/c at the time it was created AV was the best honor per hour BG in the game making it the best place to honor grind. When the stormstrike horde came up with their strat, it guaranteed them the win but it actually lowered the amount of honor per hour they would get. The horde would get more honor/hour from a quick loss than employing the scorched earth strat.


I think you should elaborate on how scorched earth works. I for one am interested in learning a bit about scorched earth since you seem to throw the term around as if everyone knew the term. I thought scorched earth, meant resource destruction, and well I don't see how it could apply in this BG. Especially since you can't destroy stuff in AV (besides your opponent).
Been doing Rath Strat AVs for a few months. I've had the pleasure of leading a few games, and got to run with Rath himself. These games are great fun, and I wish we would be matched with premades more often (that is when it really gets fun).
To the poster from stormstrike alliance, the strat that Rath's premade groups use is called 'Scorched Earth' b/c at the time it was created AV was the best honor per hour BG in the game making it the best place to honor grind. When the stormstrike horde came up with their strat, it guaranteed them the win but it actually lowered the amount of honor per hour they would get. The horde would get more honor/hour from a quick loss than employing the scorched earth strat.


I will post this one final time as it appears you didn't catch it in the initial post here.

If it was known as something else at another time, it was unknown to the Reckoning Battlegroup when developed. However, without knowledge of it, this was what was born and it was dubbed Rath Strat AV. If it is known as another name on another Battlegroup, so be it.

No different than the isolation of civilizations creating different words and languages to describe the very same things all of them use or interact with.

It has been acknowledged. Beyond this it will be a redundant and mute point.

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