Guide to Rath Strat AV's (Update Coming Soon)

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Typing from a phone so bear with me.

For clarification, Rath Strat and Scorched Earth are two completely different strats. Scorched Earth and Rath Strat may be similar but are two entirley different entities. Scorched Earth was developed during Vanilla. Back in vanilla there was no resource count, guards actually hurt, and battles could last a whole week. Scored Earth was developed to net the highest honor for the horde. The Strat worked by grinding hk's and honor to try and maximize your rank status by slowing moving north burning everything in your path one by one up to vann and killing him, that's why it was called "Scorched Earth."

Rath Strat is a counter to the zerg that is similar to Scorched Earth, but uses resources to defeat your opponent, thus leaving major parts of Scorched Earth out, one being obvious, killing Vann.

Also to add more input because I saw a discussion about choke points. Bridge is a extremely well choke point..... But. The most potent choke point in game, is the Frostwolf Keep choke. It is well contained and enclosed, except for frozen waterfall side. It isolates 2 towers and has a open courtyard. What makes it deadly is the fenced road between the stairwell building and Walled courtyard. It's so tight and enclosed, it is a true death trap. Don't get me started on how ranged can hit everything from the towers, knockbacks hit everyone, and aoe just demolishes everything.
04/27/2012 02:07 AMPosted by Krazylegz
For clarification, Rath Strat and Scorched Earth are two completely different strats. Scorched Earth and Rath Strat may be similar but are two entirley different entities. Scorched Earth was developed during Vanilla.


Wrong by many accounts. Scorched Earth was designed to maximise Horde honor and to leave Alliance with nothing. It was started when reinforcements first was brought in by choking the Alliance up at IBGY choke and sending them back beyond the IWB choke (and capping Snowfall too).

Horde PUGs took pleasure in maximising their honor and leaving Alliance with nothing, which led to Alliance stopping queueing up (or "boycott" as some may call it) and flooding the other BGs with premades for their honor instead, which led to epic QQ from Horde PUGgers.

Epic QQ and accusations from PUGs of both sides started, which led to the Horde cave being moved back in AV, and at the same time nerfing the premade queue by restricting them to only a group queue to 5 (whilst enabling 5-man group queue in AV). As we know, people could get around the group queue restriction today with either vent or AV enabler.
04/27/2012 02:17 AMPosted by Berewakk
Alliance up at IBGY choke and sending them back beyond the IWB choke


Cool we don't use IBGY choke. We use IWB choke. We don't send them to IWB we send them to SPGY.

So you see the difference now between the strats?
if alliance shifted their meta game, it might not even be a guaranteed win vs pugs. Pug =/= bad gamer. If people recognized they need to cap snowfall and hold at SH, or just park in snowfall and back cap, it would go a long way to reducing the "unbeatable" chokes that horde is relying on. Make it a game of stealth mine assualts and sorties to cap/recap. If they try to hold both IB and SH while alliance is parked at snowfall, bad things are going to happen to that strat. Need to face the music that horde is not riding down one side of the map while alliance rides down the other racing to the bosses and base caps.
Alliance up at IBGY choke and sending them back beyond the IWB choke


Cool we don't use IBGY choke. We use IWB choke. We don't send them to IWB we send them to SPGY.

So you see the difference now between the strats?


Basically no, after I've seen your premades wipe them at either Galv or IBGY, whilst capping Snowfall and SHGY, hence sending them behind the IWB choke after they spawn at SPGY.

It's still basically the Scorched Earth strat, with some variations. Hence why I call it "Rath's Scorched Earth strat", it's not new. It's just a old strat with some variations.
It has the same idea but it is still different. Scorched Earth is moving slowly up taking nodes. This is a fast move. Right from the beginning we have people taking SHGY. After we wipe them we take SFGY. The really only part that is the same is wipe at galv. We don't wipe anyone at IB choke at all to start the game. We fall back to IB choke if we are getting over runned at the main choke or facing a premade.

Read what Scorched Earth is in detail. Then read this one. Just because you can say A B and C are the same but D E F G H are different doesn't make it the same strat.
It has the same idea but it is still different. Scorched Earth is moving slowly up taking nodes. This is a fast move. Right from the beginning we have people taking SHGY. After we wipe them we take SFGY. The really only part that is the same is wipe at galv. We don't wipe anyone at IB choke at all to start the game. We fall back to IB choke if we are getting over runned at the main choke or facing a premade.

Read what Scorched Earth is in detail. Then read this one. Just because you can say A B and C are the same but D E F G H are different doesn't make it the same strat.

Actually, if you want to get technical. Scorched Earth wasn't one set strategy set up by the Horde. When it was done back on Rampage, there were several variations. Utlimately scorched earth is wiping them before they can cap any resources and just choking them out all the way up the map.
I'm pretty dissapointed. We annihilated a premade using this strat today. It wasn't even competitive.
I levelled to 85 at the start of Cata and have left this toon doing nothing since then, looking forward to getting a few games in with Rath strat this weekend. Just a thank you to the guys that run it, im hoping it will help me get some gear and most importantly have some fun in the game again. Thanks
In the interest of opening a discussion on strategy:

1. If the Alliance flips this around by defending Balinda and sending a few players to IBGY as our opening move, can we accomplish the Rath Strat is reverse?

2. It is known that Balinda is not as powerful as Galv. For example, she does not have the AoE capabilities of the Horde captain. In the above scenario, what must the Alliance do to best ensure the Horde team wipes on Balinda so they can capitalize on the IBGY cap?

3. It has been mentioned several times in this thread that the bridge is one of the best choke points in the game. Given that the Alliance has to concede a large reinforcement advantage to the Horde to establish it, what can they do to avoid losing by attrition?

4. In the above scenario, what are the weaknesses of the checkpoint? How may it be circumvented or defeated?
In the interest of opening a discussion on strategy:

1. If the Alliance flips this around by defending Balinda and sending a few players to IBGY as our opening move, can we accomplish the Rath Strat is reverse?

2. It is known that Balinda is not as powerful as Galv. For example, she does not have the AoE capabilities of the Horde captain. In the above scenario, what must the Alliance do to best ensure the Horde team wipes on Balinda so they can capitalize on the IBGY cap?

3. It has been mentioned several times in this thread that the bridge is one of the best choke points in the game. Given that the Alliance has to concede a large reinforcement advantage to the Horde to establish it, what can they do to avoid losing by attrition?

4. In the above scenario, what are the weaknesses of the checkpoint? How may it be circumvented or defeated?


1. Alliance defending Balinda would leave SH bunker and SH graveyard wide open. The three nodes are far too far part to defend all three like horde can do from Iceblood graveyard. So no, it can't be done with the same efficiency as Horde.

2. Alliance have to completely outnumber the Horde. The major issue here, is if horde see alliance packed in Balinda, they can run right by. If Alliance run right by galv, they're met at Iceblood chokepoint. Iceblood choke > Icewing choke.

3. Nothing if the horde team is intelligent.

4. There isn't a real weakness to the bridge, but there's very little strength to it as well. Horde can use the bridge almost as effectively !@# the alliance. The only advantage the alliance will have are the archers. So the tradeoff is archers or 250 resource advantage + 20% health boost.
04/28/2012 12:29 PMPosted by Esclamayshun
1. Alliance defending Balinda would leave SH bunker and SH graveyard wide open. The three nodes are far too far part to defend all three like horde can do from Iceblood graveyard. So no, it can't be done with the same efficiency as Horde.


That's what I'm seeing too. I am not coming up with anything that will lead to a 600-0 victory for the Alliance like Rathamus is accomplishing with Horde.

2. Alliance have to completely outnumber the Horde. The major issue here, is if horde see alliance packed in Balinda, they can run right by. If Alliance run right by galv, they're met at Iceblood chokepoint. Iceblood choke > Icewing choke.


I have seen that occur. It's frustrating to finally get a bunch of players to agree to try something different when most Alliance players just want to blitz Drek then have the whole Horde team ride by Balinda. Just makes it harder to convince the next battleground to try it.

However, I have seen it succeed if the Alliance stacks up in one of the craters outside the bunker then rushing in behind the Horde, catching them by surprise.

Most times, it is just delays the Horde without wiping the whole team. They don't seem as prone to throwing themselves repeatedly against a wall like your typical Alliance player.

3. Nothing if the horde team is intelligent

4. There isn't a real weakness to the bridge, but there's very little strength to it as well. Horde can use the bridge almost as effectively !@# the alliance. The only advantage the alliance will have are the archers. So the tradeoff is archers or 250 resource advantage + 20% health boost.


I'm wondering if the key isn't the actual bridge but the bend in the road before it. Hold the graveyard and the mine, then set up your casters on the ridge. Use knockback spells if Horde get too close to them. Still 250 reinforcements is a huge advantage, not counting the health boost.
04/28/2012 12:29 PMPosted by Esclamayshun
1. Alliance defending Balinda would leave SH bunker and SH graveyard wide open. The three nodes are far too far part to defend all three like horde can do from Iceblood graveyard. So no, it can't be done with the same efficiency as Horde


Same thing happens when horde defend galv. Which is why we have a huge backcap. You find the node which has least amount of time and flood it. GY can be taken back towers can not.

04/28/2012 12:29 PMPosted by Esclamayshun
2. Alliance have to completely outnumber the Horde. The major issue here, is if horde see alliance packed in Balinda, they can run right by. If Alliance run right by galv, they're met at Iceblood chokepoint. Iceblood choke > Icewing choke.


You do not need to out number them. My old guild would use 15 people in Galv and wipe alliance. Coordination>Numbers. Your major issue also works for horde. You can see if we are going across the FoS or not. Then ride by us at galv. You will have no one sitting at IB choke. I don't know why you guys keep saying that. No one is there.

3. Nothing if the horde team is intelligent.

4. There isn't a real weakness to the bridge, but there's very little strength to it as well. Horde can use the bridge almost as effectively !@# the alliance. The only advantage the alliance will have are the archers. So the tradeoff is archers or 250 resource advantage + 20% health boost.


Again I lost leading my premade to this strat. That bridge cannot be penetrated. Melee and some knock backs at face of bridge. Range sitting at top near tower AoE the face of the bridge. Have traps down nothing is getting through. It is the best choke with great advantages. The horde base one isn't that bad but we have a building at the bottom which and LoS tons of attacks. The only way to beat this that we have done is all fall back to our base. The team that is least hard headed will win. But get ready to sit in for a three hour game. I for one am not going to do that :) Don't like people leaving in middle of game and replaced with pugs. Also don't like people sitting on the wait list for 3 hours :).

So recap. The defensive strat only counter is a defensive strat. The team that gives up first on defense loses.
I'm wondering if the key isn't the actual bridge but the bend in the road before it. Hold the graveyard and the mine, then set up your casters on the ridge. Use knockback spells if Horde get too close to them. Still 250 reinforcements is a huge advantage, not counting the health boost


Wont work their are three ways to flank you. Has to be the bridge
Same thing happens when horde defend galv. Which is why we have a huge backcap. You find the node which has least amount of time and flood it. GY can be taken back towers can not.

Are we talking pug strat or premade strats here?

Again I lost leading my premade to this strat. That bridge cannot be penetrated. Melee and some knock backs at face of bridge. Range sitting at top near tower AoE the face of the bridge. Have traps down nothing is getting through. It is the best choke with great advantages. The horde base one isn't that bad but we have a building at the bottom which and LoS tons of attacks. The only way to beat this that we have done is all fall back to our base. The team that is least hard headed will win. But get ready to sit in for a three hour game. I for one am not going to do that :) Don't like people leaving in middle of game and replaced with pugs. Also don't like people sitting on the wait list for 3 hours :).

So recap. The defensive strat only counter is a defensive strat. The team that gives up first on defense loses.

You have a 250 resource lead here and both mines. You can easily pick people off and win the resource war. Falling back to the bridge only works if the horde team plays terribly wrong, which apparently you did in your scenario.
04/28/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Esclamayshun
You have a 250 resource lead here and both mines. You can easily pick people off and win the resource war. Falling back to the bridge only works if the horde team plays terribly wrong, which apparently you did in your scenario


nah 8/11 people I checked had legedary staff or heroic weapon. With Heroic PvP trinks. You can only pick off one by one if you had a comp for it which we did not. We had 1 DK in the group so no double DG was going on. Also we didn't even have 30+ in our premade when we got to the bridge.

Falling back to the bridge isn't only going to work if the horde plays terrible. It is the best choke I don't know what you dont understand about that. Small area to AoE with 20+ people doing it. That is damage healers cannot heal. Traps on ground massive snares (people are stuck in the aoe), you are not getting by.

Just saying not accusing, if you are the person who said I need to learn battle tactics think it is the other way around. Whoever is defending is going to have the advantage. They get to strike first. If this was real life I would say wrong then :)

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