So a rogue told me.....

Shaman
That rogues are the highest skill capped class.

I'm not sure what to make of this. After picking PvP back up about 3 months ago I can safely say that Rogues have the easiest time of any class at their job.

The rogue in question was a rogue I had dueled previously. I had to play perfect in order to get him even close to dying. He has just way too many abilities that I cannot counter. Cheap, Kidney, Garrot, Blind, Gouge, Smoke Bomb when i try to nuke, vanish, prep, shadow dance. There is very little in the ways of countering these moves as an Elemental shaman. I can only win if the rogue makes a crucial mistake it seems.

How exactly is this the "highest skill cap" class? Is it terms of how difficult it is to be able to use all of your buttons effectively? I completely disagree with this guy on pretty much every level. Sure Rogues are a complicated class, but they have so many advantages that really don't take a substantial amount of skill to activate: "Vanish, Cloak of Shadows, Blind"

I believe Elemental shamans have a substantially larger skill cap, because every melee class has more counters to our abilities than we do for theirs.

TL;DR Welcome to the Shaman class.
okay
effectiveness and skill cap are not the same thing. skill cap just means how much skill it takes to play it at the highest possible effectiveness, in which case sub rogues are far beyond ele shaman.
Watch videos of players like Akrios, Unmercey, etc. and tell me that the class doesn't have a high skill cap.

I don't even know if those guys still play or not, but the relevance is still there.
"Rogues = Skill"

Whoever said this is full of himself and is most likely a rogue.
Watch videos of players like Akrios, Unmercey, etc. and tell me that the class doesn't have a high skill cap.

I don't even know if those guys still play or not, but the relevance is still there.


Every class has a high skill cap depending on spec.

The OPs argument was about whether Rogues or Elemental Shamans have higher skill caps. Because playing an Elemental shaman, you have to make almost no mistakes in order to beat a good rogue.
Considering exactly how many tools a Sub rogue has, you'd have to be completely ignorant to say they don't have a high skill cap.
Every class believes they have the highest skill cap, just like every player thinks they've met that skill cap and are only losing because other classes are overpowered/their teammates suck. It's a dumb argument.
Every class has a high skill cap depending on spec.

The OPs argument was about whether Rogues or Elemental Shamans have higher skill caps. Because playing an Elemental shaman, you have to make almost no mistakes in order to beat a good rogue.

I understood YOUR argument. And as was mentioned before, a high skill cap is almost directly proportional to the size of the toolkit of a class/spec. You cannot compare shaman and rogue class-to-class because, as you said, it is spec dependent.

That is not to say they are weak, because they are far from it. However, a "high skill cap" simply means there is more room to shine. If you look at how a top rogue plays versus your average legendary/trinket-wielding arena hero, the difference is astounding. There is not that huge of a gap between an okay Ele shaman and an amazing one, due to the small size of Ele's toolkit (and thus the small window of variety). It is for those reasons that Sub rogues have a higher skill cap than Elemental shaman.

PS: a good indication that your point is not well-supported is when you have to support it on an alt.
04/28/2012 08:05 PMPosted by Rhaeti
How exactly is this the "highest skill cap" class?


Because most rogues have ego issues and think because they play an op class it must take skill
04/28/2012 08:15 PMPosted by Chillbronies
okay


You rang?
Every class has a high skill cap depending on spec.

The OPs argument was about whether Rogues or Elemental Shamans have higher skill caps. Because playing an Elemental shaman, you have to make almost no mistakes in order to beat a good rogue.

I understood YOUR argument. And as was mentioned before, a high skill cap is almost directly proportional to the size of the toolkit of a class/spec. You cannot compare shaman and rogue class-to-class because, as you said, it is spec dependent.

That is not to say they are weak, because they are far from it. However, a "high skill cap" simply means there is more room to shine. If you look at how a top rogue plays versus your average legendary/trinket-wielding arena hero, the difference is astounding. There is not that huge of a gap between an okay Ele shaman and an amazing one, due to the small size of Ele's toolkit (and thus the small window of variety). It is for those reasons that Sub rogues have a higher skill cap than Elemental shaman.

PS: a good indication that your point is not well-supported is when you have to support it on an alt.


^^^ this is fairly accurate as being a person that has every 85 class and a x2 of paladins, and hunters.
on certain classes (frost mage, mm hunter, sub rogue) there is quite a significant rift between "good" and "great" so I'm inclined to agree with the rogue you spoke to, although I personally believe that MM has the highest skill cap to be played at gladiator levels.

04/28/2012 11:44 PMPosted by Fredp
a high skill cap is almost directly proportional to the size of the toolkit of a class/spec.
Posted by Fredp
a high skill cap is almost directly proportional to the size of the toolkit of a class/spec.


This ^.

And in the case of
Ele Sham vs Rogue. The rogue should always win. They just counter you 1v1. That's how it is. Can't really compare skill caps with a duel.
My main is a rogue and she's exhausting to play in PvP. You have to time your cooldowns perfectly because the damage you do just isn't as impressive as other classes. You never stop moving, ever. The element of surprise is crucial and so is speed. There is a big difference between a good rogue and a bad rogue.

On the other hand, my blood dk is faceroll, both in PvP and PvE. It requires little to no effort to play well. All I generally have to do is stand still and beat things to death.

This shaman is between the two. The rotation is challenging, but not so much so that I can't have fun playing it. It's a very forgiving class because I don't live in fear that one little mistake will get me killed. Out of the three, it's become my favorite.
some players use the "high skill cap" argument to mitigate their incompetence.

dur the class i play has such a high skill cap, so many buttons to press its confusing, thats why i can only beat noobs and often get beat by those faceroll classes.

!@#$.
04/28/2012 08:05 PMPosted by Rhaeti
That rogues are the highest skill capped class.


Of course a rogue is going to pat themselves on the back.

In pretty much every game I've played that has a rogue/dagger/assassin-type class, they seem to be pretty nasty. But since there are plenty of people that roll rogues to be 'omgwtfUBER', there are actually a surprising number of rogues that are terrible. It has nothing to do with skill cap. I.E. DK's are deemed easy to play but I've seen PLENTY out there that are horrible at it.

Don't care about what everyone else says about their class. If they love it, of course they're going to brag that it's uber or the hardest to play so that makes it the 'best' yadda-yadda. Pretty much anyone can be REALLY good at what they do if they love what they play and it fits their personality & playstyle.

Any class can be overwhelming or confusing. Technically, pretty much every class in this game has a crap ton of skills they can use, and if they use the wrong ones, it will suck. But it goes back to enjoying what you do and being good at it. It has NOTHING to do with the class itself.
Every class has a high skill cap depending on spec.

The OPs argument was about whether Rogues or Elemental Shamans have higher skill caps. Because playing an Elemental shaman, you have to make almost no mistakes in order to beat a good rogue.

I understood YOUR argument. And as was mentioned before, a high skill cap is almost directly proportional to the size of the toolkit of a class/spec. You cannot compare shaman and rogue class-to-class because, as you said, it is spec dependent.

That is not to say they are weak, because they are far from it. However, a "high skill cap" simply means there is more room to shine. If you look at how a top rogue plays versus your average legendary/trinket-wielding arena hero, the difference is astounding. There is not that huge of a gap between an okay Ele shaman and an amazing one, due to the small size of Ele's toolkit (and thus the small window of variety). It is for those reasons that Sub rogues have a higher skill cap than Elemental shaman.

PS: a good indication that your point is not well-supported is when you have to support it on an alt.


this guy sums it up well.
04/28/2012 08:05 PMPosted by Rhaeti
That rogues are the highest skill capped class.


LOL

EDIT:

Sorry, i got out of hand there. Highest skill cap of the 'faceroll' classes.
04/30/2012 07:16 AMPosted by Aslesa
My main is a rogue and she's exhausting to play in PvP. You have to time your cooldowns perfectly because the damage you do just isn't as impressive as other classes. You never stop moving, ever. The element of surprise is crucial and so is speed. There is a big difference between a good rogue and a bad rogue.


ooooh i disagree that rogue damage isn't as impressive as other classes lol

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