"Insanity" Difficulty?

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
There should be a third difficulty tier to dungeon and raid instances. A ter that is so difficult, only the most skilled and coordinated group would be able to complete it. Basically, it would require the player to be painfully familiar with their abilities, rotation, and limits. This would in no way affect the game the way it is now in that heroic and normal difficulties would still be available.

This much harder difficulty would aim to satisfy the desires of hardcore players. Often times, I read on these forums that Cataclysm content is a joke to many people even though there are many of you out there who enjoy it for what it is.

Rewards:


Rewards would include a healthy chunk of gold (100g+) and a very rare chance to drop legendary items for each boss that is defeated. Bear in mind that these challenges probably would make quite a few people rage-quit, but that's kind of the point. It will be frustrating, yes but, passing each encounter will be that much more satisfying!
there is, its called doing content before it gets nerfed
This much harder difficulty would aim to satisfy the desires of hardcore players. Often times, I read on these forums that Cataclysm content is a joke to many people even though there are many of you out there who enjoy it for what it is.


Why? Blizzard would just nerf it because people would moan about not being able to see all the content. I would be surprised if we went through all of MOP without seeing a huge nerf to challenge modes.
05/02/2012 04:36 AMPosted by Spewz
there is, its called doing content before it gets nerfed


That's not necessarily only for the most skilled, but those with enough time.
05/02/2012 10:00 AMPosted by Turagent
That's not necessarily only for the most skilled, but those with enough time.


It's a combination of time and skill. Many pre-nerf fights will require precision to the letter, and if you don't you wipe. So the more skilled you are, and able to adapt the less time you have to bother raiding. You can raid 40 hours a week if you want to, and if you suck you'll only see half the content the hardcores see because there's usually a brick wall (or two) fights that require knowing/adapting to the raid conditions, and if everyone isn't paying attention you're going to fail.
They could add a difficulty called heroic.

they could then make it heroic, instead of a way to farm items with green text on them.

05/02/2012 10:20 AMPosted by Bubblenrun
It's a combination of time and skill. Many pre-nerf fights will require precision to the letter, and if you don't you wipe. So the more skilled you are, and able to adapt the less time you have to bother raiding. You can raid 40 hours a week if you want to, and if you suck you'll only see half the content the hardcores see because there's usually a brick wall (or two) fights that require knowing/adapting to the raid conditions, and if everyone isn't paying attention you're going to fail.


You had to kill 8 heroic bosses in 7 weeks over Christmas to beat the nerfs.
It's dedication to an unhealthy point because of how Blizzard pushes nerfs way too early this expansion (although they did tier 11 right)
This is hilarious because this is how hard heroics should be. What an idea!
If it offers better gear, it would be nerfed eventually.
You had to kill 8 heroic bosses in 7 weeks over Christmas to beat the nerfs.
It's dedication to an unhealthy point because of how Blizzard pushes nerfs way too early this expansion (although they did tier 11 right)


I think it was a little more than 7 weeks, but not much more. I agree with the premise though.
Less than 1% of the game population downs heroic content before it is nerfed. So you want an even HARDER difficulty that will be accessed by even less people. I really can't agree with it being a good use of development time.
The problem with the nerfs is that they came far too early, at a time when many servers were still in the progression race. That essentially prevented raiders interested in server competition from experiencing the content in all its glory, as you had to utilize the nerfs---there is no real choice.

And nerfs don't belong in heroic content. The encounters are supposed to test your ability and coordination. A lot of us don't want to be handed the kills on a silver platter. It just degrades the quality of the raid.

You may think the value of earning something, of feeling fulfilled, is irrelevant to a video game. But many people play for that sense of satisfaction in downing difficult content after practicing and learning the fight. That experience is left by the wayside when you nerf content that is apparently supposed to be difficult.
05/02/2012 10:20 AMPosted by Bubblenrun
It's a combination of time and skill.


As others said, the nerfs came far too quickly, especially with the holiday season. We raid two nights a week and had killed Warmaster Blackhorn three weeks before the 5% nerf (and we were working on Spine when the 5% nerf hit).

In other words, we averaged a new heroic boss every two raid nights or less until we hit Spine, where we were working on the third plate if I recall correctly when the nerf hit.

That's just very disheartening. We don't expect Blizzard to wait half a year, but two months with the whole winter holiday season during that time period is just crazy short.
I think it was a little more than 7 weeks, but not much more. I agree with the premise though.


It was 8 weeks (Nov 29 - Jan 2-3), which means that with the first week dedicated to Normal mode, you had 7 to do all 8 bosses.

It was ridiculous.
The nerfs started about a month early, IMO.

But Blizzard has made it pretty clear that they want as many people as possible to kill Deathwing on Heroic.
05/02/2012 11:26 AMPosted by Turagent
It was 8 weeks (Nov 29 - Jan 2-3)


Think you meant Feb 2-3.
Ok.

So you want another difficulty setting that only 1-3% of the population will ever kill and ontop of that you want a 1-3% drop on an orange text weapon just to go to that 1-3% of the population that will only drop 1-3% of the time?
I've never understood why people think seeing the content is a bad thing. If people don't play the content, Blizzard stops making it.

Look at it this way:

Let's assume that it costs Blizzard $100,000 per boss to design a raid. DS would cost 1.6M (8 normal, 8 heroic. I am ignoring LFR, btw.)

Now, let's assume that 50% of the players raided in normal. Okay, that's that not bad. At least that money was well spent.

Now, let's assume that only 5% have done heroic. If you are Blizzard, do you think that you just wasted $800,000 designing something that isn't being used?

It's like Walmart saying that from now on, you must make an annual salary of $100,000 to walk through their doors. It doesn't make financial since to stop the majority of your paying customers from playing the game.
Except the evidence suggests they design the heroic boss, then strip a few elements for normal, then strip even more for LFR.

In other words, once the heroic boss is designed, normal and LFR don't take nearly as long and don't have to be tuned as perfectly.
05/02/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Hudiddytoo
I've never understood why people think seeing the content is a bad thing. If people don't play the content, Blizzard stops making it.


That is what LFR mode is for though...

Heroic mode raiding isn't 'seeing the content' it's the same content with much greater challenges with gear with stats appropriate to that level of difficulty.

LFR and heroic raiding are exactly the same from a 'see the content' perspective as they are the same bosses, the same plot and the same, if recoloured gear models.

So your initial premise is a load of rubbish...
05/02/2012 04:15 AMPosted by Gordeth
A ter that is so difficult, only the most skilled and coordinated group would be able to complete it.


Typically one or two heroic bosses are mathematically impossible at the time of their release. Heroic Lich King, Heroic Ragnaros, Heroic Sinestra, Heroic Spine would most likely all fall under the "impossible upon release" tag. That is to say, when first accessible they are impossible to defeat. Not really sure how much more difficult you could make things unless you just wanted them to be flat out impossible even with BiS-geared raiders - which isn't really a viable option (or is it?)

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