Symbiosis. Too much drama?

General Discussion
Just to be clear. Symbiosis is the druids lvl 87 spell. Every other class gets their own spell at 87.

As a moonkin, I join a PUG.

Tank - ´ cast it on me, I need the defensive cooldown´.
Me - ´I really want to cast it on the mage for mirror image´.
Mage - ´that is stupid, I don´t want a healing spell´.
Me - ´so don´t use it´
Everyone ´ dude, just give it to the tank, it helps us all´.

kicked for not being a team player.

I know this spell will be awesome in raids and in guild groups.. but wow.. the social implications for pugs is going to be terrible. If this were in addition to another level 87 spell, I would not mind ´wasting´ it on the tank... but this is our level 87 spell and I have a feeling we are always going to be socially forced to throw it on the tank and thus not benefit from it.

My suggestion is this.... make it two spells. Allow us to ´give´ it to one player, but pull from a different player. So I can give the tank the defensive cd, but pull the mages mirror image.
I've often found the predicted drama and the actual drama when it's in actual use are not the same. In dungeons, I'd expect a druid to maximize their personal dps/hps/what have you. There's not really any fighting over pi, or dark intent, or anything like that in dungeons.
If 5 mans are an issue, it's generally a solid bet to put it on the tank, the DPS gain from Mirror Images is hardly going to be gamebreaking, whereas Might of Ursoc for a Blood DK is godly.
Ok Awkward. Now imagine if YOUR level 87 warlock spell was a buff for the tank?

This is kinda the point I was making. This is NOT a random buff spell we are getting.. this is in place of a real lvl 87 spell. And as you pointed out.. it is going to be quick and easy for the group to agree ´just give it to the tank´..... which gives us nothing.
Alot of buffs only given you an illusion of choice. I didn't want timewarp does that count?
Ok Awkward. Now imagine if YOUR level 87 warlock spell was a buff for the tank?

This is kinda the point I was making. This is NOT a random buff spell we are getting.. this is in place of a real lvl 87 spell. And as you pointed out.. it is going to be quick and easy for the group to agree ´just give it to the tank´..... which gives us nothing.


My 81 (or was it 83?) spell gave me less than nothing as my DPS often depended on having three stacks ALL THE TIME.

Which unless there was a Survival Hunter, Resto Druid or SPriest, kinda sucked.

04/30/2012 08:42 PMPosted by Atropis
And I don't care how godly it is for the DK tank. If he, or any tank, really *requires* having Symbiosis, I don't want him in my pug because he probably sucks to begin with.


So I should give DI to the Arcane Mage over the Spriest because they don't *require* DI?
04/30/2012 07:10 PMPosted by Awkward
whereas Might of Ursoc for a Blood DK is godly.


Yeah, that 15% heal usable during those 2 microseconds when we're at 14% or less health is totally worth wasting extra DPS or someone else getting a more worthwhile buff.

Unless they buff the hell out of MoU I'd rather it go to someone that'll actually get use out of it.
04/30/2012 08:58 PMPosted by Bomdanil
whereas Might of Ursoc for a Blood DK is godly.


Yeah, that 15% heal usable during those 2 microseconds when we're at 14% or less health is totally worth wasting extra DPS or someone else getting a more worthwhile buff.

Unless they buff the hell out of MoU I'd rather it go to someone that'll actually get use out of it.


It also gives you 15% EXTRA HP.

Right now, I'm sitting on ~250k raid buffed. A cooldown that gives me an extra 37-38k HP would be quite welcome.
Yeah, it's kind of worthless for us. If I need to heal myself, I'll just pop a cookie and/or Drain Life. Think I'd rather see it on a tank.

It's not going to be game breaking for your personal dps. I get groups all the time that doesn't give me much for my Dark Intent (to make full use of it, I need someone that uses dots/hots) so I miss out on 9% dot damage. We still get through the 5man just fine.

It's called a situational spell. If all you care about is maximizing your dps and don't pay attention to your utility then you could end up gimping your groups.
The only problem with Symbiosis is how it relates to tanks. It gives the tanks an extra cooldown which is too good to pass up.

They need to give the tank a dps ability or cooldown, and it won't be as attractive to them.
Can someone please give me a tooltip definition of Symbiosis? I'd also appreciate a link to the other new spells in MoP, but that's a little unrelated :P
04/30/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Awkward
It also gives you 15% EXTRA HP.


So does VB (unless that's been changed too). Either way, unless they go back to the Wrath model where EH is king for everything tanking related, I personally would prefer they go to classes that will actually benefit from the buff. I'd also like for classes without a useful buff right now to get something worthwhile (healing touch or rejuv on caster DPS? LOLwut?) but Blizzard's not likely to do that since they've intentionally moved away from that since the spell was implemented.
04/30/2012 09:09 PMPosted by Imthirsty
Can someone please give me a tooltip definition of Symbiosis? I'd also appreciate a link to the other new spells in MoP, but that's a little unrelated :P


http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2735-Druid-Symbiosis-Spells-Temple-of-Kotmogu-Preview-Galleon-Raid-Blue-Posts
It should be used on whoever the DRUID can benefit the most from.. it's their spell. but I'm sure a bunch of self-important people will be whispering them to use it
04/30/2012 09:13 PMPosted by Kayssa
It should be used on whoever the DRUID can benefit the most from.. it's their spell. but I'm sure a bunch of self-important people will be whispering them to use it


I partially agree, but it should also take the entire group into consideration. I'll use my Dark Intent as an example again: if the group needs the extra healing then I'll throw my Dark Intent on the most ideal healer of the group/raid. If the tank can't last long enough for everyone to get the boss down, then it doesn't matter how good your dps is.

Of course if the healers/tanks don't need any help then dps would be the next priority.
04/30/2012 09:12 PMPosted by Awkward
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2735-Druid-Symbiosis-Spells-Temple-of-Kotmogu-Preview-Galleon-Raid-Blue-Posts


Wow, DKs get the worst possible buff out of Symbiosis compared to the other tank classes.
Not trolling, but I honestly think you're making this out to be a bigger deal than it really is.

If the tank needs an extra defensive cooldown, then he's clearly not geared to be in said dungeon, or the healer is letting him drop unnecessarily low or he doesn't know mechanics.

Similar to how raids and dungeons were never designed around having Bloodlust, I doubt that these five mans are going to be so tightly tuned that who you give Symbiosis to will make or break the group.
04/30/2012 09:30 PMPosted by Amestris
If the tank needs an extra defensive cooldown, then he's clearly not geared to be in said dungeon, or the healer is letting him drop unnecessarily low or he doesn't know mechanics.


What if he's in a progressive raiding guild and they're still learning the fights? Of course they won't be over-geared for the content and they still don't have the skill. Stuff like that could help them last long enough to push a phase.

Then again, having an extra DPS CD could also help in a DPS race type fight.

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