A question.

Story Forum
In MoP, the Alliance and Horde will be in all out war (hopefully despite Anduins Jade Forest bull!@#$). However, thanks to Velen's short story, we know both factions will happily working with each other directly or soon after.

So my question is: Why should I get hyped up for inter-faction conflict when it will mean absolutely nothing in the long run, and I'll be expected to happily work with my enemies soon after?

And more than that, with Blizzard trying to push neutrality so constantly, is there a real reason for two separate factions beyond having them for the sake of it?
You should be hyped to, hopefully, see your faction doing something. Whether or not its against the other faction has never realy mattered in my book. Also blizz will, hopefully, put in a very good reason for why we are all working together again eventualy.

Also the reason for the seperate factions is to attempt to show varried cultures acting independently from one another. At least that is what I get from it.
05/02/2012 02:57 PMPosted by Shaithiss
You should be hyped to, hopefully, see your faction doing something. Whether or not its against the other faction has never realy mattered in my book. Also blizz will, hopefully, put in a very good reason for why we are all working together again eventualy.


But the entire point of MoP is the war between the Alliance and Horde. Which doesn't matter, thanks to Velen revealing to us we'll be holding hands again against whatever big bad comes after this expansion. So whats the point?
Technicaly the vision may or may not come true. The story mentioned that not every path he sees will happen, some paths are more likely to occur than others, but very few are guarenteed.
Not like he didn't tell us something we already knew. The war between the Alliance and the Horde can't last forever. Either one defeats the other, or both enjoy peace for a bit
You should be hyped to, hopefully, see your faction doing something. Whether or not its against the other faction has never realy mattered in my book. Also blizz will, hopefully, put in a very good reason for why we are all working together again eventualy.


But the entire point of MoP is the war between the Alliance and Horde. Which doesn't matter, thanks to Velen revealing to us we'll be holding hands again against whatever big bad comes after this expansion. So whats the point?


The point is for the conflict to come to it's conclusion (at least in the short term). In order for that to happen, both sides need to realize how high a price they are paying by fighting each other, and the only way to do that is to ramp up the conflict by a dozen fold for the current expansion.

While we don't know the details of the Garrosh encounter, I would love to have it set up so we start the Siege thinking Garrosh has come under some sort of external influence, only to find out he was acting out of his own free will the whole time. This will trigger a lot of introspection on both sides, ensuring that when the time comes they can fight the Legion without constantly stabbing each other in the back.
The point is for the conflict to come to it's conclusion (at least in the short term). In order for that to happen, both sides need to realize how high a price they are paying by fighting each other, and the only way to do that is to ramp up the conflict by a dozen fold for the current expansion.


Which entirely negates the worgen story and makes them seem even worse off than they currently are, as well as letting Sylvanas completely off the hook.

Still, that's a reasonable, if incredibly disheartening, answer. Thank you. However, that leads to this:

05/02/2012 02:46 PMPosted by Boltkeggar
And more than that, with Blizzard trying to push neutrality so constantly, is there a real reason for two separate factions beyond having them for the sake of it?
Which entirely negates the worgen story and makes them seem even worse off than they currently are, as well as letting Sylvanas completely off the hook.

Still, that's a reasonable, if incredibly disheartening, answer. Thank you. However, that leads to this:


There is still time to resolve those disputes within MoP itself. Long-term I don't see Sylvanas getting off the hook even if there is a ceasefire between the Alliance and Horde. One way or another, I have little doubt she'll one day get what's coming to her.

Remember Velen's vision names no characters (aside from Anduin...maybe), only races. The idea that the Forsaken could be under new leadership by then is pretty reasonable.
05/02/2012 03:41 PMPosted by Falrinn
There is still time to resolve those disputes within MoP itself.


I doubt Blizz would do that again, otherwise they'll have another 'They got everything they wanted what the hell are they still doing here' like they did with the Draenei and their 'loyalty'.

Long-term I don't see Sylvanas getting off the hook even if there is a ceasefire between the Alliance and Horde. One way or another, I have little doubt she'll one day get what's coming to her.

Remember Velen's vision names no characters (aside from Anduin...maybe), only races. The idea that the Forsaken could be under new leadership by then is pretty reasonable.


Sylvanas is too popular to die.
Too be honest when the Horde and Alliance work together I doubt it will be a "let's be friends lul!" situation and more of a "Oh we don't have the resources to stop this threat destroying the world on our own, we need to ally ourselves with another force that has enough resources to help..".

One of those "the enemy of my enemy" things.
Too be honest when the Horde and Alliance work together I doubt it will be a "let's be friends lul!" situation and more of a "Oh we don't have the resources to stop this threat destroying the world on our own, we need to ally ourselves with another force that has enough resources to help..".

One of those "the enemy of my enemy" things.


Thing is, after both factions had to become "allies" against some big bad guy like 4 times already (Archimonde, Kiljaeden, Arthas, Deathwing), they still insist to fight eachother, even knowing that the next big bad guy is probably around the corner; that doesnt make any sense to me.
Too be honest when the Horde and Alliance work together I doubt it will be a "let's be friends lul!" situation and more of a "Oh we don't have the resources to stop this threat destroying the world on our own, we need to ally ourselves with another force that has enough resources to help..".

One of those "the enemy of my enemy" things.


I absolutely agree.

There's a big difference between deciding that fighting a 2-front war when the fate of the universe is at stake is a silly thing to do, and all singing around a campfire together.

Think of it like this. Lets say you have a historical conflict with another country. You fought them, they fought you. Sometimes you invaded their territory and sometimes they invaded your territory. Make no mistake you absolutely hate each other and have every reason to, but at least they more or less exist on your level.

Then Cthulhu awakens and attacks both countries. Are you doing to keep dedicating the bulk of your resources to fighting your historic rival while Cthulhu is devouring the countryside, or are you going to throw every scrap of power you have at Cthulhu? Only a madman would choose the former since only the latter allows for the tiniest chance of survival.
I absolutely agree.

There's a big difference between deciding that fighting a 2-front war when the fate of the universe is at stake is a silly thing to do, and all singing around a campfire together.

Think of it like this. Lets say you have a historical conflict with another country. You fought them, they fought you. Sometimes you invaded their territory and sometimes they invaded your territory. Make no mistake you absolutely hate each other and have every reason to, but at least they more or less exist on your level.

Then Cthulhu awakens and attacks both countries. Are you doing to keep dedicating the bulk of your resources to fighting your historic rival while Cthulhu is devouring the countryside, or are you going to throw every scrap of power you have at Cthulhu? Only a madman would choose the former since only the latter allows for the tiniest chance of survival.


I agree too, and your example is great. The difference to me its that Mr. Cthulhu awaked like 4 times already, teaching them how inconducent is their conflict.
They will never sing together around a campfire (unless is basic campfire ruling over them all), but they are forced to stop the war just to survive despite any historical hate in between. Any faction leader with some vision should be aware of that.
Then Cthulhu awakens and attacks both countries. Are you doing to keep dedicating the bulk of your resources to fighting your historic rival while Cthulhu is devouring the countryside, or are you going to throw every scrap of power you have at Cthulhu? Only a madman would choose the former since only the latter allows for the tiniest chance of survival.


Then why focus on the conflict between them when it will mean nothing in the long run?
05/03/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Rhoggarn
Then Cthulhu awakens and attacks both countries. Are you doing to keep dedicating the bulk of your resources to fighting your historic rival while Cthulhu is devouring the countryside, or are you going to throw every scrap of power you have at Cthulhu? Only a madman would choose the former since only the latter allows for the tiniest chance of survival.


Then why focus on the conflict between them when it will mean nothing in the long run?


Because it's to tell the Alliance and Horde that this battle is getting nowhere. They're not the enemys here Excluding Garrosh. The Legion, The Old Gods and this mysterious threat Velen mentioned is the true enemy. It may seem like nothing to us cause we get to witness it but as someone said before in another thread.

Our knowledge=/Alliance Horde Knowledge.
05/03/2012 12:44 PMPosted by Valeus
Because it's to tell the Alliance and Horde that this battle is getting nowhere. They're not the enemys here Excluding Garrosh. The Legion, The Old Gods and this mysterious threat Velen mentioned is the true enemy. It may seem like nothing to us cause we get to witness it but as someone said before in another thread.


If this is the case, why the hell are there two factions? All they ever do is work together.

Even in an expansion dedicated to them fighting its to show how wrong they are.

Whats the god damned point?
05/03/2012 12:44 PMPosted by Valeus
Our knowledge=/Alliance Horde Knowledge.


This is true to a point, the variety of extinction moments both factions faced already is well knowed to every major character in the game. I mean, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Arthas and DW didnt crossed Azeroth in stealth mode to be honest.
So, after all those threats, how the f%& they still focus on mutual anihilation?
05/04/2012 05:14 AMPosted by Lathiandra
Our knowledge=/Alliance Horde Knowledge.


This is true to a point, the variety of extinction moments both factions faced already is well knowed to every major character in the game. I mean, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Arthas and DW didnt crossed Azeroth in stealth mode to be honest.
So, after all those threats, how the f%& they still focus on mutual anihilation?


Because when the big bads are not on stage, the greivances between the factions continue.

Take a look at a real life case in point. Yugoslavia was a forcibly hammered confederation of 3 ethnic groups, which held for the lifetime of the dictator the Communists put into power. Despite being made to peacefully live with each other for almost 5 decades, the country immediately descended into a three way bloodbath between those factions practically the moment Titov was laid into the ground.

Just because a greater enemy can bring two enemies to fight side by side, does not change the fact that they are still enemies with good, passionate, reasons to hate each other. Who will fight again of those grievances aren't resolved, which they aren't.
05/03/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Rhoggarn
Then Cthulhu awakens and attacks both countries. Are you doing to keep dedicating the bulk of your resources to fighting your historic rival while Cthulhu is devouring the countryside, or are you going to throw every scrap of power you have at Cthulhu? Only a madman would choose the former since only the latter allows for the tiniest chance of survival.


Then why focus on the conflict between them when it will mean nothing in the long run?


Because it means a hell of a lot in the short run.
Because when the big bads are not on stage, the greivances between the factions continue.

Take a look at a real life case in point. Yugoslavia was a forcibly hammered confederation of 3 ethnic groups, which held for the lifetime of the dictator the Communists put into power. Despite being made to peacefully live with each other for almost 5 decades, the country immediately descended into a three way bloodbath between those factions practically the moment Titov was laid into the ground.

Just because a greater enemy can bring two enemies to fight side by side, does not change the fact that they are still enemies with good, passionate, reasons to hate each other. Who will fight again of those grievances aren't resolved, which they aren't.


They hate eachother, i dont deny that. But they faced the friggin apocalypsis together lots of times, thats a pretty good reason to put open war aside imho.
That was always Thrall's and Jaina's point of view wich seems to be correct considering how things actually are.
Yes, there will be some skirmishes here a there, but open war is just insane.

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