The fall of Garrosh

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We know for sure that Garrosh will turn out to be the main antagonist for the MoP expansion. What do you think will be the logical progression of events that will put Garrosh down for good and Thrall back on top? (we all know the Thrall will be the next warchief, sure they are others but blizz loves Thrall too much to not have him as the next warchief).

Let me try and set it up and go from there.

Deathwing has fallen and Azeroth is recovering from the cataclysm. We know there is active points of conflict all over Kalimdor, in the Barrens, in Ashenvale ext. What happens next that will ultimately bring down Garrosh?
After Garrosh destroys Theramore, the Alliance wakes up and realizes they're at war with the Horde and starts fighting back. As the Horde starts losing troops and land, Garrosh becomes increasingly more desperate to defeat the Alliance, eventually turning to demons/sha/dark shamans/whatever. Thrall finds this act to be morally reprehensible and because nobody who isn't a bad guy ever disagrees with Thrall, the Alliance and non-Garrosh Horde (which includes, of course, every named Horde character who isn't Garrosh) decide to put aside their petty differences and bring Garrosh down. Through the awesome power of Thrall, and the Horde/Alliance partnership, but mostly Thrall, Garrosh is brought to justice, peace is restored, and the two factions live together in harmony while the Horde keeps all the land it stole during Garrosh's reign without any repercussions and the Forsaken continue plotting to wipe out all life on Azeroth.
Blizzard is actually being wish-washy in regards to Thrall being warchief now.
First off, let me say that it is good to be back on the Story Forums, although I did enjoy my hiatus drinking southern-island iced tea at the Booty Bay Resort off the coasts of Stranglethorn.

Now, back to the post at hand because I was absent when this news that Garrosh was going to be de-throned was announced.

I believe, as others have posted, that the Alliance will start winning more and more battles, causing Garrosh to become desperate. I think that Garrosh will ally with the Mogu and through them the Zandalari to bring down the Alliance. This gives everyone a good reason to want to bring him down, especially if he becomes more cruel and violent with war prisoners, etc. leading to his downfall.

In the end, Garrosh's obsession with victory and conquest will be his undoing, but we'll see how it plays out.


Absolutely agreed.

Garrosh needs to remain free of external corruption for the story to be worthwhile. We've had the whole "respected leader becomes tricked/corrupted by demons/Old Gods/whatever a dozen plus times now" and I think it's past time for something new. Garrosh allying with the Mogu works because the Mogu more-or-less operate on our level and are motivated primarily by self-interest rather then a desire to see the universe explode.

05/10/2012 02:37 PMPosted by Drailen
Blizzard is actually being wish-washy in regards to Thrall being warchief now.


This too. My guess is that Metzen threw out what was at the time the leading idea Blizzard was working with, but after seeing the reaction Blizzard decided to reconsider. After all any post-Garrosh storylines still likely exist only on paper, so they are naturally very changeable. I would be surprised if Expansion 5 has anything more concrete then a few pieces of concept art and a short outline done.
Honestly, it doesn't seem like Garrosh is a bad enough person to become a major villain without external influence, given both the series' precedent and, importantly, the fact that he wasn't even designed as a villain to begin with. He already is being turned into a villain via the fan's pressure.

This isn't to say I'm not gleeful about killing the bastard, but it wasn't something I expected.
I'm not entirely sold on the whole, "Alliance winning more victories thing." With a warchief like Garrosh being obsessed with absolute victory wouldn't another more plausible argument be that he alienates certain factions of The Horde? As we know from the stalemate in Ashenvale and the Worgen (lead by Varian) coming to save the day. King Varian is a much more stable leader and his blessed by Goldrinn. During a the Alliance's main invasion of Kalimdor, Garrosh loses his head and throws certain factions of The Horde into a a trap that ends up getting many of the more neutral leaning Horde factions severally disabled. I would say a prime faction would be The Tauren or The Darkspear Trolls.

This causes even more stress when Garrosh blames them for the failure or undermines their efforts after a successful battle. This would cause the said factions to not leave The Horde, but instead withdraw troops and work towards a non aggression treaty with The Alliance forces, Thrall tries to act as an ambassador but is shunned by Garrosh. Thrall being the legendary hero of The Horde then leaves to join the new Alliance/Horde coalition. When this happens some of the more evil factions mentioned in other posts are recruited by Garrosh into Garrosh's Horde.

Another possibility would be for Garrosh to order extremely dishonorable actions done to The Alliance and certain Horde members refuse.
I think an interesting turning point would be if Garrosh starts using the "lesser races" of the Horde (meaning non orcs and tauren) as expendable troops as he gets more and more desperate to win the war. I really can't think of a better way to get everyone to turn against him than that. Even the most hard-line Garrosh supporting orc would have to question his loyalty when the lives of his troll friends are being thrown away like so much trash to attempt to slow the Alliance offensive.
True, true, and such a thing would definitely turn the Forsaken against Garrosh as well.
Honestly, it doesn't seem like Garrosh is a bad enough person to become a major villain without external influence, given both the series' precedent and, importantly, the fact that he wasn't even designed as a villain to begin with. He already is being turned into a villain via the fan's pressure.

This isn't to say I'm not gleeful about killing the bastard, but it wasn't something I expected.


You think so?

The way I see it, all the makings of a villain are there, he just needs the right stimulus to push him over the edge.

He's arrogant and reckless. To him if the Horde desires something, they should reach out and take it no matter who else is harmed in the process. He also seems to glory in the idea of war to the point where it's questionable if he sees war as a means to a goal, or as a goal in itself.

If the Alliance were to win a big enough victory, that could be enough for Garrosh to resort to desperate methods (either allying with a less-then-reputable faction, or simply by adopting tactics so horrendous everyone else considers no better then the Burning Legion's, even if the Legion itself isn't involved) to turn the tide of war back in the Horde's favor.
05/10/2012 03:30 PMPosted by Gilderien
I'm not entirely sold on the whole, "Alliance winning more victories thing." With a warchief like Garrosh being obsessed with absolute victory wouldn't another more plausible argument be that he alienates certain factions of The Horde?

Oh, the Horde can keep having their internal conflict. I'd just like for the Alliance to actually have a role in the story this time around, too.

The Alliance needs to be a big enough threat to the Horde that Garrosh is justified, at least from his perspective, in doing whatever his heinous war crime is in order to to beat them. Right now, with the Horde curbstomping us on every front, we're not.
im sure that garrosh goes mad with power and wanting to win and the rest of everyone else said with thrall/alliance/horde coming together to take down the power hungery garrosh. glad to see him go hated him :)
I'm very curious as to where the raid entrance will be. If it's inside ogrim then i feel bad for the alliance making attempts to get in (but nvm i just remembered the flying mounts and teleport lol) but anyway, or there could be some portal in ogrim or next to it and for the alliance it's like a air drop into the city.
Are you asking what will happen or what should happen? Knowing Blizzard what will happen is he'll be normal(as normal as he is now) and then suddenly after one quest he'll be off the to the crazy house

What should happen is exactly what Wickham said
Man, I sure used to be optimistic about this expansion.

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