Holy Pally Mana Regen

Paladin
Hey guys i've recently been playing holy on my pally just to mix things up. I have a level 85 healer of every class except a shaman now and one thing i've noticed about pally healing is how inefficient our mana regen is.

My playstyle is as follows: judge to get my haste buff, do my best to melee targets to get more mana from my seal, use DF for the t13 two set bonus, and use divine plea/racial for that extra bit of mana.

Even after all of this i find myself running oom quite often. While i will admit that the way i heal could be considered quite spammy i don't have this problem when healing on my priest or druid. I've considered doing some FL pugs to get my heroic t12 two set bonus but i was just wondering if anyone else is having this problem and if they are how they are solving it!

Thanks for your help
Hmm my regen seems fine. I assume your healing set is similar in iLvl to mine. The only time i have mana issues, is when people are being lazy and completely just take needless damage and require me to get out of my pattern of healing.

Also maybe your healing style and raid style might be more suited for mastery builds.
Huh? Paladins use mana?

The heals you choose will have a big effect on how quickly you go OOM. Spells like HR and Flash of Light are really, really, expensive mana-wise. If you know you'll be using either it's important to rotate your cooldowns so you can be mana efficient. Using Divine Plea earlier rather than later is a big help to me when I have mana-issues on a certain fight. That way I still benefit from the regen and its cooldown is already rolling so I can use it again sooner.

Going from having to judge every 8s to once a minute was rough for me. I was wasting a lot of mana spamming judgement when I didn't need to at all. I set up the addon "Need to Know" for the haste/spirit buff so I can tell exactly when it is about to expire and plan accordingly. Basically, just keep changing how you use your cooldowns until you find a solution that helps you. These are just a couple things I've had trouble with.
Yeah, if you're judging more often than once every 40-50 seconds, you're wasting a lot of mana and globals.

Also, you should replace some of your Ret glyphs in your Holy spec, silly :-P. Getting an extra 50% return from Divine Plea would be very useful for instance, as would an extra 10 sec with Divine Favor or an extra 10% healing on WoG.

One thing that's a little odd is this:

use DF for the t13 two set bonus,


You want to use DF for situations with high raid damage, the bonus is just that - a bonus, and a relatively weak one at that. It doesn't really change your cooldown usage.

Other than that, you should probably just heal a little more conservatively, weave in Holy Shock a little more, etc. That's where most Paladin mana problems stem from.
Glyph Divinity, DP, WoG and Beacon. The most important thing is to be VERY careful with HR and FoL, if you don't have control of your mana these can oom you very quickly. Also if you are just toppin off people use HL, it keeps your mana steady and you get 100% transference to your Beacon target. I very rarely have to melee for mana, but you should keep doin it if you have mana problems.

EDIT: I can't type.
Pretty much what Kiselt said. I tend to only use HL until someone is in real need of a heal, IE 50k gone, then i'll use a FoL or DL. Your mana regen should be decent enough that a constant amount of HL isn't going to hurt your mana too much.
i think ive used HL about 5 times in a raid night most nights

if youre doing any progression at all its just a waste of time to cast HL and you will fall behind

dont be using HR and FoL all the time, but for AoE phases HR is terribly efficient
FoL is an emergency heal, dont be afraid to use it to catch up on healing if someone is dropping fast or you dont think you can get a DL off in time

holy shock on CD, always holy shock, even at 3 HP if you can to always keep the proc up
really you shouldnt have too many mana issues beyond spine/madness with your gear

unfortunately you dont have Heart of the Unliving which will also magically erase most of your mana issues.
There's nothing really wrong with our regen, it's just that our spells (particularly holy radiance) are expensive and stacking haste (which is generally perceived as the best bang for your buck for increased throughput) comes at the cost of using more mana.

The answer is fairly simple, get more spirit. When we were doing normals/easier heroics I reforged out as much spirit as possible b/c the fights were long enough and the damage wasn't intense enough to challenge my longevity. Now that we've moved on to harder heroics and people haven't gotten any smarter about not standing in things I've gone back to spirit heavy to be able to last the whole fight.
if your not using glyph of divine plea and complaining about mana, here's your sign. there really is no reason not to run it.
and i really wish people would stop suggesting glyph of beacon of light. its an absolute waste of a glyph slot. even if your having mana issues, it most certainly is not because the mana cost of beacon.

also to continue on what a guy above me said, holy light should be one of the least casted heals during a raid encounter. the point where we are now is it heals for to little, you'll fall behind, and have to spend a ton of mana on flash heals to quickly get somone back up before they die.
also, MELEE!!!
for the love of god paladins, melee. the mana you get back racks up alot over the coarse of a boss encounter, every single fight has a point where you can dp/melee. if there's down time, you should be meleein'g the boss.

edit: matter fact, just copy all my glyphs plz, you'll be glad you did.
Our regen's fine.
holy shock on CD, always holy shock, even at 3 HP if you can to always keep the proc up
really you shouldnt have too many mana issues beyond spine/madness with your gear
If you Holy Shock past 3 Holy Power yet advocate inefficient heals, you have no !@#$ing clue what you're talking about. Can't believe I didn't see this travesty of a post.


you dont think its beneficial to have the buff up as much as possible?
of course you dont want to waste it trying to be efficient, but for throughput its quite handy

i advocate using it when you think it will be off CD before you use up your WoG
if you do it right, nothing is wasted and youre preparing for a more immediate reaction
Are we supposed to auto attack for our melee? I read using CS is a mana loss so what melee attacks should we focus on using? Also, don't you find it weird to keep having to switch targets to the boss just to melee and judge? I feel like I'm not doing it right.
05/17/2012 10:33 AMPosted by Sarvan
Are we supposed to auto attack for our melee? I read using CS is a mana loss so what melee attacks should we focus on using? Also, don't you find it weird to keep having to switch targets to the boss just to melee and judge? I feel like I'm not doing it right.


Yep, melee. You can use a macro to judge without retargeting.

This will all change in MoP as we will be using CS as a core part of our healing, and LoD becomes an untargeted super effective AOE heal around us. CS base cost is reduced, and can be removed with a glyph.
You must be doing something wrong in your spell selection, as we are probably the best healer for mana efficiency.

I'd recommend Glyph of Divine Favor instead of Holy Shock, and would also consider Light of Dawn if doing 10man, because of it being a smart heal.

Take H Morchok as example, I can spam HR and Flash of Light during the light phases, (using up most of my mana), then burst regen almost to full during the black phase (arcane torrent + plea + concentration pot).

Melee regen is nice but it's not something you do an awful lot of, and depends on the fight. For example on Zon'ozz you'll pretty much do none of it, except a small window just after the black phase ends; but on Yor'sahj you can also regen to full after each blob phase very easily by melee, AT, plea.
05/17/2012 10:33 AMPosted by Sarvan
Also, don't you find it weird to keep having to switch targets to the boss just to melee and judge?


Just target the boss the whole time (and heal people without changing targets). You should use an add-on to enable mouse-over click healing, it will massively improve your throughput compared to a system where you need two (or more!) clicks/keypresses to do what you want.
05/17/2012 08:49 PMPosted by Lusignan
Also, don't you find it weird to keep having to switch targets to the boss just to melee and judge?


Just target the boss the whole time (and heal people without changing targets). You should use an add-on to enable mouse-over click healing, it will massively improve your throughput compared to a system where you need two (or more!) clicks/keypresses to do what you want.


I'm going to have to use healbot or something. I've just been clicking on the target frame to heal.

I also feel like I'm getting a better handle on how to do this. I figured out to put the Judgement of the Pure buff in my Raven timer so I know when to judge and I saw that I can cast the basic heal (I'm not good with some of the names of the spells yet but it's just the basic cheaper heal) over and over and never drop in mana because by the time it casts I've gained the mana back. So that helped make sense of the whole judging thing.

I'll download healbot though. I think I might need to.
I haven't had a mana problem in a long time, the only fights where I really OOM so far is Spine, because of how heal intensive it is and even then Im not too bad till the last plate. I use DP when Power Torrent procs, and time most of my DP with Mana Tide or when our Priest Mana Hymns. I do use Holy Light a lot when there isn't a lot to heal, and Divine Light when I need to, holy shock on CD, and I can say I can be bad with Judgement, might go like 15 seconds without it before Im like HURP DURP judgement...

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