Warlock PvE dps vs Mage PvE dps

General Discussion
So I've been wondering, what class does more PvE dps? I've heard countless comments about warlocks being he best then mages being the best. I've created this thread for seasoned players to help new Players know which class does best. I've tried both classes found their extremely similar in PvE, and in lore (the first warlocks were mages looking deeper into the arcane). So once this thread hits it's post max, a lot of new players (hopefully) will know what class is better in 4.3 and in MoP.
Mage

/thread
Mages should beat warlocks on every single fight except for Heroic Morchok, since destruction warlocks can use Bane of Havoc on the 2nd one and do double damage. Here's a helpful site for determining top-end PvE dps

raidbots.com
It's a pointless discussion, anyway, because the balance is always shifting. Play what's fun for you, not what's current FoTM.

Someone that's experienced and knowledgeable about <insert current slightly weaker class here> is going to do more dps than someone who freshly rerolled as <insert current slightly stronger class here> because it was FoTM.

EDIT: Havoc can also be used on Madness.
Yeah, but affliction is far far better on madness due to the fact that you can multidot everything. Affliction actually tails directly behind mages in optimal settings on madness, unless you're at the top of the top end of raiders affliction will likely win out on that fight.
05/16/2012 05:49 PMPosted by Lpdx
Yeah, but affliction is far far better on madness due to the fact that you can multidot everything. Affliction actually tails directly behind mages in optimal settings on madness, unless you're at the top of the top end of raiders affliction will likely win out on that fight.


Ah. I don't know the first thing about warlocks, beyond 'our lock is always top dps and always Banes on Madness.'

/shrug
I understand warlocks have a considerably higher skill requirement.
05/16/2012 06:07 PMPosted by Osmeric
I understand warlocks have a considerably higher skill requirement.


Keeping those DoTs up is hard, right?
05/16/2012 06:12 PMPosted by Cubcakes
Keeping those DoTs up is hard, right?


Arcane and fire rotations are a joke, even mages complain about it.


Actually all 3 warlock specs have a much more complex rotation than pretty much every other class.
05/16/2012 06:14 PMPosted by Xulji
Keeping those DoTs up is hard, right?


Arcane and fire rotations are a joke, even mages complain about it.


Yes, they long for the complexity of putting up 3 DoTs and periodically refreshing two of them, while punching Haunt whenever it's up.
05/16/2012 06:12 PMPosted by Cubcakes
I understand warlocks have a considerably higher skill requirement.


Keeping those DoTs up is hard, right?


Apparently it is.

http://cynwise.wordpress.com/warlockery/decline-and-fall/
05/16/2012 06:16 PMPosted by Cubcakes
Yes, they long for the complexity of putting up 3 DoTs and periodically refreshing two of them, while punching Haunt whenever it's up.


Locks switch between two specs between fights just to be viable.

I don't see mages with dual PvE specs as often.
If you seriously think any class in this game is 'hard' you might want to consider quitting for a game more your speed. Like maybe those touchscreen games you see in bars.
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Dragon_Soul/dps/
http://www.simulationcraft.org/432/Raid_T13H.html

Mages are far ahead of warlocks currently.

As for warlock complexity try keeping two targets fully dotted, one with Haunt, and both with Shadow Embracex3 without letting any debuffs fall off. My comp sometimes slows down from attempting this.

@OP theoretically warlocks are supposed to be doing the same type of damage as mages but mages usually come out on top in sims. Throw in that the type of fights that FAVOR warlocks are few and far between (especially since the raid designers find the type of fights that DONT favor warlocks more fun) and if you want to consistently top the charts in a min/max guild go warlock. If you are planning to run in a regular guild just work hard and you should top the charts easily enough as a lock.
05/16/2012 06:07 PMPosted by Osmeric
I understand warlocks have a considerably higher skill requirement.


For anyone debating the % difference in DPS between classes, the skill requirement isn't a big deal. If it's someone still clicking their abilities and keyboard turning; I could see this being an issue.

The real answer is to play what you prefer thematically and, well, just for fun. Finding a class that suits a person's playstyle > FotM.
05/16/2012 06:26 PMPosted by Callatham
If you seriously think any class in this game is 'hard' you might want to consider quitting for a game more your speed. Like maybe those touchscreen games you see in bars.


Oh look, yet another player with insecurity issues, acting like they're too cool for school in order to feel better about themselves.

It's okay, dear, let it out. We're here for you.
05/16/2012 06:32 PMPosted by Lindrianna
If you seriously think any class in this game is 'hard' you might want to consider quitting for a game more your speed. Like maybe those touchscreen games you see in bars.


Oh look, yet another player with insecurity issues, acting like they're too cool for school in order to feel better about themselves.

It's okay, dear, let it out. We're here for you.


As badly as he communicated the message, it does ring true. There isn't anything particularly "hard" about playing one class vs another. It's all in the details. Playing properly is more of a math game and setting oneself up for success with UI adjustments, and other 3rd party addons to make tracking timers easier. A lot of players make the game harder than it really is by not taking advantage of the myriad of resources out there to improve their gameplay.
For anyone debating the % difference in DPS between classes, the skill requirement isn't a big deal.


Not universally true. Granted, yes, no class is 'hard' in a patchwerk fight, but in any non-patchwerk raid fight, the more complicated the rotation, the more room for error while under pressure and focusing on whatever the current raid mechanics are.

If the less complicated rotation is showing higher numbers, anyway, than yes, it's a moot point. But if the more complicated rotation is showing higher numbers if executed perfectly, than in that case, it would matter, since it becomes a matter of average vs. ceiling output.

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