The Future of PvP in Mists of Pandaria

General Discussion
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Be nice if you read my post before responding lol


Guards will actually be guarding places where PVP activity shouldn't be common. Why is this a problem?


Just faction leaders and the new MoP Horde/Alliance Hubs. The rest can keep the guards they have now TBH, destroying a lvl 10 quest hub should not be easy. But attacking PvP targets should not be out of the question.


You lack reading comprehension don't you? At what point in that statement did I say anything about wiping towns? The fact of the matter is people that want to grief will still grief regardless of the OP guards. The change only hurt people who legitimately enjoyed world pvp.

In my seven years of playing this game and being active in the world pvp enviroment I've not once ran into a situation I was involved in that a GM stepped it. I've never heard of anything like that either. Even in cases where a team of douches held Bloodhoof for two hours.


Want to experience world PVP? Go to a PVP server. Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.


Feathermoon had a very nice and rich world pvp culture prior to the guard change and flying mounts in Azeroth. (Though thats a topic for another thread.)

It's not fitting a square peg in a round hole. It's simply making an adjustment which should happen to all servers regardless of type. I'm fairly certain you're just trolling anyway so I'm not giving your responses that much credence.


Just faction leaders and the new MoP Horde/Alliance Hubs. The rest can keep the guards they have now TBH, destroying a lvl 10 quest hub should not be easy. But attacking PvP targets should not be out of the question.


No. Some people want to level to 90 in peace.


I meant city hubs. You know, they MoP version of Dal & Shatt that ARE NOT SANCTUARIES and you are supposed to be able to attack?


No. Some people want to level to 90 in peace.


I meant city hubs.


/pvp is a wonderful tool on PvE realms. If you want to PvP you can and if you're a carebear you don't have to ever, ever flag up if you don't want to. World War 3 could be going on around your toon as he merrily skips through the fields picking flowers and you would never have to be bothered.
06/05/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Alanth
To be frank you had plenty of warning rolling on a PvP server what to expect. Blame your friends, not blizzards changes. The majority of people on PvP servers enjoy PvP. You're in the minority just as I suppose I am for PvE servers.


You're right, I did have warning. I also told the group that I really didn't want to be on a PvP server as did a few of the others, but in the end the couple that really did want to be on a PvP server made enough stink and convinced enough people to go with them that in the end we all made the jump. So now where is my guild? None of the original hardcore PvPers are left and the rest of us are here with characters with a ton of gear, history, and feats on them that we don't want to give up, nor do we want to pay the thousands of dollars to collectively move all of our toons.

What you're saying is that I can either shut my mouth and continue to play with my friends or start over again on a PvE realm, but the reality is that when faced with that decision the most likely outcome is that I will stop playing.
We've been wanting them to fix this BG for YEARS and they still haven't gotten around to it. I've all but given up hope for them to make the small changes required to make this BG great again. I mean, is it too much to ask that as a Horde, I get to be INSIDE a damn building to cast the flag capture for the towers? Why do I have to keep getting bombarded by Archers when the Alliance doesn't suffer such blatant design imbalances?

I could go off, but I think it's high time we all banded together to get them to focus on this BG to let it return to greatness.


Thank you for your post, Noctumbris. Alterac Valley is an issue close to many hearts which is why it keeps coming up: Ask the Devs top rated question, TWICE (PvP and General) - ignored, countless threads: ignored, high rated Beta forum thread x 2 (Catacylsm & Mists): ignored, official 'favourite battleground' poll: result was AV, developer response: add Isle of Conquest to recapture AV.

Why is it so hard to discuss the elephant in the game (that's not Peanut) with the developers?
06/05/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Malverot
To be frank you had plenty of warning rolling on a PvP server what to expect. Blame your friends, not blizzards changes. The majority of people on PvP servers enjoy PvP. You're in the minority just as I suppose I am for PvE servers.


You're right, I did have warning. I also told the group that I really didn't want to be on a PvP server as did a few of the others, but in the end the couple that really did want to be on a PvP server made enough stink and convinced enough people to go with them that in the end we all made the jump. So now where is my guild? None of the original hardcore PvPers are left and the rest of us are here with characters with a ton of gear, history, and feats on them that we don't want to give up, nor do we want to pay the thousands of dollars to collectively move all of our toons.

What you're saying is that I can either shut my mouth and continue to play with my friends or start over again on a PvE realm, but the reality is that when faced with that decision the most likely outcome is that I will stop playing.


And that sucks. I'm not saying it doesn't. But being a vocal minority on your chosen server isn't really going to change anything. Honestly the best solution for you and your friends would to find an appropriate PvE server and organize a mass transfer. It's not ideal but if the changes will bother you that much it might be the only option.
Because I'm not suggesting that we force PvP on anyone on the servers.

I'm asking that the guards, which in no way affect your personal PvP status, change in accordance with the pvp realm standard. It would do wonders to foster PvP on all realms without forcing anyone into doing what they don't want to.
The reason there was so much world PvP in vanilla was because, for most players, there was nothing else to do endgame. Raiding was not as accessible as it is today; battlegrounds were server-based. Level 60 players would go out of their way to duke it out in Hillsbrad (not even a level 60 zone!), because if you weren't in a raiding guild, what else was there to do?

Today, we have accessible raiding, even more accessible dungeons and heroics, fast battleground queues, arenas, dailies, faction grinds, archaeology (heh), achievement farming, and transmog farming. In Pandaclysm, we'll have pet battles, scenarios, challenge modes, and a virtually limitless amount of dailies.

Point being - we have tons and tons of activities with tangible rewards in the game right now. And we have tons more to look forward to. What incentive do players have to engage in world PvP when they could otherwise be progressing their characters in a meaningful way? Why should I gank players at quest hubs when I could be doing arenas or rated battlegrounds for gear, mounts and titles? Why should I be ganking players at quest hubs when I have my own dailies to attend to before a raid that night?

The game has changed a ton since Vanilla. If players don't want to engage in world PvP, they won't - no matter how weak the guards are, or how easy it is to grip players off their mounts.
Any thoughts on trying to cut down on "Pillar Humping" in arena? As it stands right now any healing class in the Dalaren Sewers, Nagrand and Ruins of Lordean the basic strategy is just to circle the obstacles i.e. Pillar Humping. This isnt fun and yes its a legitimate strategy but its well dumb. There are ways to get around it but specifcly the coffin in Ruins it just messes with targeting way too much.

The current Arena maps should be looked at before new ones are made. Cover should be temporary in Arena. Please look at this if you want to seriously get into MLG.

Arena requires far less skill because of obstacles. The same team that beat us because their healer Pillar Humped better then ours is dead meat on Ring of Valor.

Arena should be about fighting and countering each other not who can circle a pillar the best.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5270835759
Rogues, Ferals, and 'some' Mages will be screaming and kicking. I have no sympathy for rogues and mages anymore, but feral doesn't deserve that. (#)'s

I strongly disagree with this idea. You may already tell, to an extent, what the other team has right off the start. Knowing what buffs are active, and which specc they belong to, is plenty of heads-up for coming up with a strat against the other team. Players know what do if we get "this team" and what to do against "that team." Sure it's not perfect, but there's absolutely no reason why the element of surprise should be removed from Arena.

"What do we have....it's...RMP." --- Encourage players to learn the game, not rely on the UI to tell them everything.

Arena is supposed to be very organized, min-maxed, etc. Setting up one's class to better deal with different situations feels very right in this setting. As for Feral, I assure you this won't put it at a disadvantage. Decent players already know your spec and comp right away.
Because I'm not suggesting that we force PvP on anyone on the servers.

I'm asking that the guards, which in no way affect your personal PvP status, change in accordance with the pvp realm standard. It would do wonders to foster PvP on all realms without forcing anyone into doing what they don't want to.


No. Guards will continue to guard on PVE servers, and you will just have to deal with it. Honestly the best solution for you and your friends would to find an appropriate PVP server and organize a mass transfer.


Touche sir.

And that would be well and good if I didn't also enjoy the RP aspects of my realm. I do RP, something thats next to impossible on a PvP server due to culture. Even a slight nerf to guard respawns, ability to follow through vanish and overall damage would go a long way.

Will I end up having to deal with it? Of course I will. I'll have to roam permaflagged as always, counting on people blueflagging on me to get my fix. Which is all well and good I suppose. It's supremely disappointing that a simple change won't go live for all servers though.
My realm has always been a prominent server that the best pvpers in the world flock to. Unfortunately, the same type of person who is willing to pay to be on the best realm is also the same type who is willing to pay for the best racial. Pre-cata, horde outnumbered alliance greatly, but now with human racial, alliance greatly outnumbers horde. My concern here is that by forcing people out into the world, many servers such as my own, will encounter issues where the higher populated faction will control the key areas that people wish to go to. I would bet my account right now that if Alizabel was in the middle of Uldum, the alliance on tich would camp her all day long, even if they were saved, to terrorize the opposing faction. Looking at wowprogress.com, you can see that on nearly every realm in the US, one faction always greatly outnumbers the other. It won't be an issue for alot of realms, but my realm has the best players in the nation, so I could see this being a major problem.

Do you expect cross realm zones to help mitigate this? And as far as world bosses go, will someone be able to "ninja pull" so your raid group is forced to engage and they can collect loot? On top of that, how complex will the boss mechanics be? If you have even a moderately complex boss, plus you have to kill members of the opposing faction, I could see this being a problem.
These ideas sound great on paper, but a lot of them are "been there, done that, it didn't work out as planned". So why try them again?

Why is this a problem? Faction imbalances. They exist, they are real. On some realms, they are overwhelmingly tilted to one sides favor. This will affect world bosses, world PvP, quest hubs, and now that you're weakening city guards, day to day life.

1) World bosses? Azuregos anyone? The faction with the bigger numbers wins. Not to mention, having to park a scout out in the middle of nowhere to nab the boss simply was.not.fun. At all. Not even a little bit. How will you prevent this?

2) Quest hub PvP? I hate to sound so gloomy, but when something can be used to grief another person, someone somewhere in the world will abuse it. This idea would be great if everyone killed the other person, got their quest, and went on their merry way. This doesn't happen. Instead, I've seen instances (and have done it myself as revenge) where someone gets camped until they log off the game. The idea of bringing your buddies in for backup sounds great unless you have a less populated realm, don't have any friends on at the moment, or are behind the leveling curve.

3) World PvP? Non instanced PvP zones? Halaa? This was another great idea on paper, that never quite worked out. For all the reasons stated before.

4) City raids? Yes, they are fun when they happen randomly, and take a ton of coordination to carry out. They are not fun when you are the lower population faction. They are not fun when you need to get stuff done and your flight master is dead and your vendors are dead and you can't do anything. Southshore and Tarren Mill were fun, and I"m nostalgic for them also, but I know that they would be an incredible frustration to me now. Back then, that was all the PvP we had, and not much else to do. Now we have stuff to do, you've given us a ton of busy work and reputations and quests and professions and achievements and transmogs and not enough time to do them. Having to wait longer because our city is under constant attack is not fun anymore.

I know I sound like Debby Downer, but a lot of this has been done and didn't work out. Why are you going back to it and presenting it as new and exciting? I'm not excited, sorry.


This.

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