MoP raid releases will be staggered

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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Well, perhaps I'm not explaining my question very well.

Between tiers of difficulty; there is typically a 12-13 item level difference in the gear that drops; that used to be the way you determined (and even the way many third party sites determine) what content should be optimal or trivial for you.

With the item level of stuff from heroics being 463 and the item level of "normal" mode Mogushan being 483 -- that is a 20-item level difference; which in most cases is too much of a jump (bosses might hit too hard scaled to gear/dps budgets might be higher than possible)..etc etc.

LFR seems to bridge that gap in this case since its ilevel is 476. It was just odd to me to stagger LFR behind releasing the normal mode when it would just seem most woudlnt even be able to logically clear it

Don't forget that 5 mans aren't the only method of gearing up. Vp gives gear for every slot and seems to be raid level or LFR level (I forget which) there is also crafted gear which would be raid level. So you certainly don't need LFR to gear up for normals.

Is there a vp cap?
Sounds like a great idea, so long as:

- The first heroic tier offers a true challenge with a tough final boss, not something like Karazhan
- The subsequent gates don't take too long to come out

Given this is just the raid content planned for pre-5.1, I have some faith that the second point won't happen.

Also, you guys should really adopt this approach for the final raid tier of an expansion. Getting stuck with a single, tiny raid zone for ~1 year (i.e. DS) is not healthy for your game. I honestly thought we wouldn't see a repeat of ICC, but BAM!
Eneia, I show your first raid achievement dated in like last december after release with your first clear in mid-January. Based on that time table from Cata, a week isn't really going to impact you much.
This is the worst thing I've ever seen. "We want people to do content at the rate that enjoy" needs "except hardcore players cause we don't care about them." added to it now it seems.

Glad to see this is how the game is going. Too bad I'm still screwed in to annual pass and already bought MoP, guess this will teach me never to trust Blizzard again.

edit- at least they didn't delete my post this time!
08/01/2012 12:09 PMPosted by Firestyle
Eneia, I show your first raid achievement dated in like last december after release with your first clear in mid-January. Based on that time table from Cata, a week isn't really going to impact you much.

I don't focus on completing raid achievements during the first boss kills. Actually, since Glory of the raider reward is in game even when the content is old, we complete most of them at a much much later date. Although some achievements you can get accidentily so I did get some early.

I was having a very easy going start of Cataclysm and already scored some raid boss kills during the first week. I was hoping for more this time around, given that the raid diffculty was announced to be DS like.
08/01/2012 12:09 PMPosted by Firestyle
Eneia, I show your first raid achievement dated in like last december after release with your first clear in mid-January. Based on that time table from Cata, a week isn't really going to impact you much.

Artificial gating is a crock.

And it's not the same guild that we started with in Cataclysm, we're set to do much better this time around.

Hopefully the week isn't going to impact you that much.
I might be misreading but are you saying we will do

Normal MSV > Heroic MSV > Normal HoF/Terrace > Heroic HoF/Terrace

Seems wonky, but again I might just be misreading.

I read it as the expectation is that the top flight guilds will probably clear MSV normal week 1 and so Heroic MSV will be a content buffer for them. For people who don't clear normal MSV before normal HoF and Terrace open they'll be able to follow the normal mode progression path.

Basically accept as a given that for a certain set of raiders normal modes are going to die week one pretty much regardless so those raiders can get into the content they care about ASAP without overwhelming the average raider. As long as the time between normal MSV and normal HoF/Terrace opening isn't longer then 2, 3 at most, weeks and MSV heroic is actually difficult its a decent solution.
Bad idea. You are just giving us the content slowly as a way to make the content seem to last longer.

What is the point of releasing raid finder a week after the normal raid hits?

The advantage of raid finder is that people who are unable or unsure if they can complete normal mode to select that mode instead to practice and get gear.

By releasing it after the normal modes you force these people to either wait a week or force them into normal modes they are not sure they are ready for.
Personally, I'm ok with this, though I respect the opinions of the players who feel that this decision is an imposition on them. Not everyone likes to level.

However, I have a concern. This tier of raiding has a pretty interesting release, but what about the next few? Are we going to have 16 bosses in a mix-n-match and then two tiers where we have only one raid? Because that's going to be a pita.

I would like to see the following:

T14 A (6)
T14 B (4) T14C (6)

Patch 5.2 Dungeons (2)

Patch 5.3 T15A (6) T15B (6)

Patch 5.4 Dungeons (3)

Patch 5.5 T16A (5) T16B (5)
T16C (7)

Here's my reasoning. At the beginning of the expansion, you want a lot of activity. And you want to keep the momentum going. That you have, but you simply cannot have single raids in mid and end expac - that's when you need MORE variety, not less. The further you go in X-pac, the more likely people are going to grow tired. So 3-1-1 is not a good way to go about releasing raids.

Having multiple raids decreases burnout significantly. I mean, they don't all have to be in separate locations - See Wyrmrest and AQ for how you can have multiple raids in the same general location. Heck, you could even have a Naxx-style "wing" with each wing being its own mini-raid.

The scenario above provides the players with different instance venues and they can choose which venue to do when. The end tier is set up so that the "culminating" raid is showcased at the end (if it's going to be Garrosh, let's have him go out in style).

The biggest complaint is that there is not enough "newness" but that usually starts happening when raiders are stuck in only one raid for a long time. Planning on at least two raids you not only provide variety within the tier, but you can stagger the availability and give the appearance that you're releasing content more often.
I just don't get what Blizzard wants me to do all week. I've been looking forward to a new xpac for month because of how crappy DS is to only find that even after release of the xpac, I'm still going to have !!!% to do.

Leveling will take 12-15 hours judging by beta. Gearing for raids will take 12-24 hours. Then...... nothing to do until Tuesday. I almost have more to do each week now than I will at MoP release, sweet, just what I was hoping for.
Because the people who LFR is truly tailored for typically don't have the time or the MEANS to actually raid in the first place.

For those people the leveling process and the five mans are more than enough content for them to chew on until LFR is open.

If we falsely assume that people all play at the same pace (or the pace that you play at) we typically come to the conclusion that it will never be enough.

LFR was gated when DS first came out anyway, I fail to see the problem.

The heroic gear from Vaults is going to be flat out better than the later two instances normal mode counter parts by half a tier, it will also be better itemized (assumption). Doing it this way ensures that the second set of raids doesn't completely obsolete any reason to do the first raid released. At least that's how I understand it.

It's 16 bosses (18 if you count the world bosses), which is a lot. It's almost pointless to argue whether or not this model makes it live, because it certainly looks like this is the direction it's headed. I think a better question to ask is if this quality and quantity of bosses is going to remain CONSISTENT throughout the expansion. Staggered raid release isn't that bad as long as there is a lot of content to chew on. I don't think many people would have complained if we had a second 4-5 boss raid instance released a month after Firelands was released, at least, I know I wouldn't have.

I am far more interested to see if this model remains throughout the expansion. I've always disliked small/medium tiers of bosses, regardless of quality (Sunwell was the exception).
Hi Neryssa!

You were on Aerie Peak? Why'd you leave us? QQ Such a warm home! Should come back imo =p
What was your name here?
LOL, I remember Alone back from when I was on Aerie Peak. I wonder what will make them crumble this time =P

(I also remember competing on achievements with Eneia. And Kathell, if you remember him.)

Is that you Crack?
08/01/2012 10:43 AMPosted by Solistic
Just curious, why is raid finder being released a week after normal version?

This is a matter of striking a balance between preserving the feeling of guild progression and making the content accessible to players outside of organized guilds. We definitely want to see everyone have a chance to experience Mists of Pandaria raid content, so holding Raid Finder mode for a week feels like a reasonable window of time to accommodate players of all stripes.

08/01/2012 10:52 AMPosted by Penndamonium
For everything that thinks this is a good idea: Get ready to wait months for the second set of raids.

We thought our intent was made pretty clear in the Blizzard Insider article, as well as in my original post. But, if it’ll ease your concern, I’ll be more specific!

Raid dungeons Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Spring are scheduled to be released on normal difficulty four weeks after Mogu'shan Vaults has been opened. ;)

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