Fury of Pandaria: PvE Fury in MoP

Warrior
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i play SMF and i love it i am doing more dps then i was using TG. SMF is more of a smoth rotation where as TG is cluncky and easier to screw up.
You might be forgetting to fully math it out.

Haste's SEP is something AIDS like .21, as you said, and the DMV has an uptime of 20% or so.

6121 * .2 = 1224 (haste on proc * 20% uptime = 1224 average haste)
1224 * .21 = 257 (1224 average haste * 0.21 = 257 SEP)

So 257 SEP from the proc (on average), plus 1021 strength, for a total SEP of 1,278, probably far worse than any other trinket Collision has listed in his BIS list.

Math might be a bit off since it's like, 6AM.


Ah, yes, that's the step I forgot. Woops. Don't mind me.
How does Lessons of the Darkmaster compare for TG fury? I'm not sure if it's better than either of the trinkets I have (which tbh aren't very good). Coren's Cold Chromium Coaster Lei Shen's Final Orders
Both of those are better for TG. Just assume anything not listed is below anything.
Thanks for the info.

Another gear question - Right now I have a 2pc set bonus and I'm looking at how I can a 4pc one. If I get tier it'll have to be the LFR tier for a little while at the rate I'm progressing. Should I sacrifice one of my 489 items (helm or shoulders) for a 4pc set bonus if I wind up getting a tier piece drop in LFR? The lower cd on recklessness seems like it could be a very nice dmg boost.
i saw the post of our friend colission, on the page 44, for TG Lei shi + 5.1 (skullrender) is the best option, however, is better use all of 3 dps cd's at the same time? bloodbath, trinket, engineer buff?

Thx!
Any on-use trinkets put synapse springs on an ICD for the duration of the buff (and vice versa), hence why the DMF trinket is superior to the SRM is you're an engineer.
just to clarify, so, as a engineer and TG, should i use carbuncle and regular lei shi, or a relic of xuen instead the carbuncle?
DMF + Lei Shin, until your crit has an SEP of 1.2ish (protip, not yet and not until around BIS gear).

Also, I wouldn't match that belt socket bonus, personally.
thx jalopy!
Is it worth it to go to four piece if I'm simming for about 1k less dps?

It's an obvious answer if SC accounts for 4p, but I'm just wondering.

[E] Apparently, it does consider the set bonus, I guess having two LFR tier pieces brings too many static stats down over the 150s decrease on Recklessness' CD.
|!set_bonus.tier14_4pc_melee
Is it worth it to go to four piece if I'm simming for about 1k less dps?

It's an obvious answer if SC accounts for 4p, but I'm just wondering.

[E] Apparently, it does consider the set bonus, I guess having two LFR tier pieces brings too many static stats down over the 150s decrease on Recklessness' CD.
|!set_bonus.tier14_4pc_melee


So, what you're saying, is that the 4 piece bonus isn't worth going down in gear level to keep? So LFR shoulders, for instance, are a DPS loss compared to Golden Lotus shoulders?
Just...NM...You allready did it.
@Patri In theory, yes, but I haven't physically tested it.

The static stat loss over the higher uptime on Recklessness' is what we're comparing. I'm putting in two 483 pieces and replacing gloves that are an amazing offset piece with a 496. If I had 496 everything it might be worth it, and 509 gloves would make it better considering how good the crafted gloves are.
When trying to compare gear in simcraft, it can be a total !@#$%. The best way that i've found so far is to sim my character, equip the item, reforge accordingly, log out, sim, and see what happens.

For tier bonuses, another way you can do it is to simulate the dps gain/loss from the bonus itself with all other factors accounted for. Click on the "Overrides" tab in simcraft, and add in the following:

tier14_2pc_melee=1
tier14_4pc_melee=1

If you change those to 0, it will disable the bonuses.

So for example on my character, I ran a sim without changing anything. Then I ran another simulation with the 4 piece enabled.

No 4 piece: 102083 DPS
4 piece enabled: 103988 DPS

So 4 piece is a 1905 DPS gain, and to put it into SEP terms so that it's easy to compare with strength/crit/mastery/etc, it's worth 580 SEP.

I did the same thing with 2 piece, and the SEP value for that is 600.

So what does this mean for gear comparison?

Is it worth going from Garalon's Graven Carapace to Battleplate of Resounding Rings in order to pickup 4 piece bonus?

Garalon:
1063 + 80 + 120 STR (gem)
578 Hit
828 + 160 + 320 Crit (gem)

So, 1263 + (578 * .8) + (1308 * .8) = 2771.8 SEP

Resounding:
924 STR
278 hit/exp (reforged off haste)
517 haste
695 + 320 + 320 + 120 crit = 1255 (gems and such)

So, 924 + (278 *.8) + (517 *.25) + (1255 * .8) = 2280 SEP

Add in gaining the 4 piece bonus SEP of 580, and you get a final value of 2860 SEP when swapping from normal galaron to 4 piece, using a LFR chest.

So yes, it is worth dropping down 13 ilevels on one piece of gear for LFR 4-piece.

However, more than likely it is not worth using 2 pieces of LFR tier when you have 496 gear in those slots.

:late edit: forgot gems

TG:
BEST:
Heroic Lei Shen's Orders
5.1 Trinket (Skullrender)
Carbonite Carbuncle (Only if crits SEP is above 1.2, roughly 505+ ilevel)
Regular Lei Shen's Orders
Relic of Xuen
Carbonite Carbuncle
Chorium's Coaster
LFR Lei Shen's Orders


This is all interesting. I don't suppose you reran to test the Engineer Difference for TG, or is that including Engineers? It's hard, albeit not impossible, for me to believe that the Skullrender is better than the alternatives even if you don't get the benefit during Bloodbaths.

TG:
BEST:
Heroic Lei Shen's Orders
5.1 Trinket (Skullrender)
Carbonite Carbuncle (Only if crits SEP is above 1.2, roughly 505+ ilevel)
Regular Lei Shen's Orders
Relic of Xuen
Carbonite Carbuncle
Chorium's Coaster
LFR Lei Shen's Orders


This is all interesting. I don't suppose you reran to test the Engineer Difference for TG, or is that including Engineers? It's hard, albeit not impossible, for me to believe that the Skullrender is better than the alternatives even if you don't get the benefit during Bloodbaths.


I didn't run with with TG engineering, but I just did... and engineering drops skullrender to this:

TG:
BEST:
Heroic Lei Shen's Orders
5.1 Trinket (Non-engineering)
Regular Lei Shen's Orders
5.1 Trinket (Skullrender) (Engineering)
Upgraded Carbonite Carbuncle (Only if crits SEP is above 1.2, roughly 505+ ilevel)
Relic of Xuen
Upgraded Carbonite Carbuncle
Chorium's Coaster
LFR Lei Shen's Orders


This is all interesting. I don't suppose you reran to test the Engineer Difference for TG, or is that including Engineers? It's hard, albeit not impossible, for me to believe that the Skullrender is better than the alternatives even if you don't get the benefit during Bloodbaths.


I didn't run with with TG engineering, but I just did... and engineering drops skullrender to this:

TG:
BEST:
Heroic Lei Shen's Orders
5.1 Trinket (Non-engineering)
Regular Lei Shen's Orders
5.1 Trinket (Skullrender) (Engineering)
Upgraded Carbonite Carbuncle (Only if crits SEP is above 1.2, roughly 505+ ilevel)
Relic of Xuen
Upgraded Carbonite Carbuncle
Chorium's Coaster
LFR Lei Shen's Orders


Collision, how a skullrender will be better than a upgraded carbonite carbuncle? i'm a engineering. i can't use the trinket, cuz the eng burst its better? so, just for the 1.1k+ str?
Okay, I have a question about SimCraft.

How close should your DPS be to your numbers in SimCraft - i.e. how much of a difference can there be before it comes to you doing something wrong? Is within like 5% of the number you get a good range to shoot for?
If you used Recklessness with Skull Banner wouldn't that be a dps increase?

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