[BALANCE DRUID]=Amazing! My thoughts on stats

So I was convinced I was gonna switch raiding toon from the doom and gloom of the druid beta forums! Reading the beta forums will make you think that moonkins are messed up beyond all recognition. They will make you hate moonkin if you're reading them.

Instead, give it a shot like I did, and I'm 110% sure you'll love your druid again!

All these values are unbuffed.

Mastery is your friend! As of now, it's extremely valuable. The way our rotation is working now is that you don't need nearly as much haste as you did before. Everyone was trying to get that coveted 3101 haste break point. Stop thinking you need haste now. I've personally stacked mastery enough to have 50% increased damage in either eclipse. That # for me is 35.44% [1954 (+20.44%mastery)].

Crit is mana from the astral goddesses! Your wrath/starfire and starsurge crits will increase the duration on Moonfire or Sunfire. Which one depends on the Eclipse you most recently hit. ALSO, when your dots crit, they have a chance to refresh starsurge, so stack the mess out of crit! That number for me personally is 21.97% [1508 (+8.41% crit chance)].

Stack haste like is TBC! In other words, don't stack it :D Fix your "I need a billion haste" mentality. It's not needed anymore. Haste breakpoints are a thing of the past, or at least until we get to lvl 90. Whether you have Incarnation or Soul of the Forest in the lvl60 talent section, haste is negligible. You wont spend more than 5 seconds out of eclipse on either end of the spectrum(in my experience) with a decent set of gear. My haste is now at 13.38%, 1713.

Overall, I'm very happy with what has happened with balance druids at this point for lvl 85. The changes have fixed many nagging problems like solar camping and taking forever to reach each eclipse. Hopefully there are others that are seeing our class the way I am now. Amazing!
I'm thoroughly please with all the changes to balance PVE and PVP, We are finally viable in pvp and my damage was where it should be in pve right behind the 3 firemages /sigh LOL
Are your fire mages high or low in damage? I Was able to best almost everyone after this change. Before 5.0.4, I was mediocre at best on single target fights like ultraxion.

My Boomkin makes thing go boom now!

I was going to create a new thread for this, but since I found this existing Boomkin appreciation thread I'll just post here.

Cata was a really tough time for me with dps. I know that some Boomkins did just fine, so maybe I just never got the rotation right, but from what I read, most Boomkins were in a bad place in Cata. Being at or close to the bottom on the damage/dps meters consistently was rather depressing. This was especially the case when someone with less gear and experience with the boss fights pugged in and did better than me, or even when I brought my lesser geared alts on raid night and did better than myself!

I read up on the patch changes and new rotation and cooldowns, and got some practice time on the training dummies on Tues night. Then came raid night on Wed... Omg, the change in my dps was... amazing. Despite making a lot of errors during my rotation due to lack of practice, I did very well (comparatively speaking to pre-patch performance.) I started off the fights with big cds and big dps, surged ahead and held the number 1 spot for a couple minutes into most of the fights! (Although a couple of my teammates tended to overtake my damage about 2 minutes into the fight. Still, I ended most fights middle of the road instead of bottom like before - and I really mean bottom...)

One of my teammates was so happy for me, he actually stopped dps'ing long enough to /yell GOOOOOO PHAAAAAAAAY!!!!! on the Morchok fight. LOL

Anyway, I still need to practice my rotation so I won't make so many mistakes, especially on movement fights and aoe fights where I'm performing the weakest currently. (Funny how I seem to be doing better at single-target fights now. During Cata I kept wishing for more aoe fights.) But this is a great start, and I hope other Boomkins are having as great of a time as I am.
Just to make sure folks are aware if you haven't read page 46 on the balance druid sticky where Eluial has updated how things work:


Int is (still) always better than everything else
Hit (til cap) > Haste (til closest breakpoint you can reach) > crit > mastery > haste above breakpoint

****Raid hit cap is now 15% (1537 rating)****

Haste breakpoints (include NG and moonkin aura)
2 ticks - 69 rating
3 ticks - 1589 rating
4 ticks - 3099 rating
It's just nice to be competitive again. I think we're about right in line with fire mages, hunters and rogues...which is a nice place to be. I do feel a nerf coming along...esp. to starsurge. But we'll see..I like where we are right now though. :)
I find the changes really great. To be able to move into either sun or moon before a fight starts is on the top of my list.

Short story: This happened last night.

I got into the first HOT dungeon and the group was already on Baine. They had wiped at least once already. The healer was having trouble adjusting to her new talents. I was able to help out by off healing and it felt great that I didnt have to waste a GCD to shift back into Moonkin every dang time I threw a heal and lose even more DPS. After that our healer settled in and was fine the rest of the dungeon.

The second boss was Jaina, we zoned in and moved towards the first group. A big lag spike hit and all of a sudden the tank was dead. I was able to throw a rez his way and shift into bear form and pick up the adds. I was able to hold my own while our tank rezed, got orientated, and picked agro back up. Shifted to moonkin, jumped back, started pounding away.

This is my type of play. I prefer ranged DPS but I like being able to pick things up if a FURBAR happens. I dont expect it to happen too often but it is nice that I can.
I'm glad people are enjoying the new stuff. Personally, I had a lot of fun in our raid last night, actually having CDs to use and stuff. I agree that I'm liking the new playstyle (even though I liked the old one, too).

Just as a couple words of warning, not to rain on anyone's parade, but it's nice to know what's coming. For one, a lot of the stuff on the beta forums was about level 90 play. The pre-expansion pack is pretty much always imbalanced as a rule, because the new talents and abilities are tuned to be balanced at max level, not at the current level.

I'm glad a lot of you are doing well on the meters, but remember that the patch just hit 2 days ago, and some specs had very, very major changes. Some people might find their changes a lot less intuitive than you do yours, and so it takes them longer to adjust. It's feels good to do well, but don't become complacent about things just because you topped meters on day 2 of the pre-expansion patch.
Thank you for this i have been so confused about boomkin past 2 days... Thank you!
08/30/2012 12:30 PMPosted by Eluial
I'm glad a lot of you are doing well on the meters, but remember that the patch just hit 2 days ago, and some specs had very, very major changes. Some people might find their changes a lot less intuitive than you do yours, and so it takes them longer to adjust. It's feels good to do well, but don't become complacent about things just because you topped meters on day 2 of the pre-expansion patch.
This exactly sums up what you are currently seeing. While we are doing quite well, part of the disparity is because other people haven't researched their changes as much/power auras was down which means they weren't able to optimally play if their spec had gigantic playstyle changes.

Another reason is that we are really good when we get more stats. I can transition to eclipse with 1 set of DoTs and my DoTs crit enough that any time I have 2 targets I am getting back to back to back to back SS procs. This will not be the case likely through T14H @90. We're just seeing how awesome we are when really geared. If you want a perspective then think about it like we were in wrath. Early on and undergeared eclipse was an exercise in futility due to never ever ever critting. And then in later tiers we had near 100% uptime in eclipse and were doing very well. It's like that, rainbows and sunshine now, then thunderstorms for the first tier, then back to rainbows and sunshine as MoP progresses.
I love the changes, but I can't wait to be back to the point where I'm confident in the priority of my class. I've watched Cyous' You Tube video for Balance I'm so confused. D: But, I'll keep watching it and keep practicing. I can't memorize rotations, I have to know how they work so I know what to do situationally and I keep finding myself staring at my action bar like, "Okay, should I be using Incarnation now?"

But I'm not complaining, it seems like we got a single-target buff which is good for sure. :)
@Draelan I'm gonna re-post this here since I originally put it in a thread on my realm's forum. All credit goes to Cyous and Eluial for the content. I just tried to dumb down what Cyous said for people like me who had to re-read it a few times lol.


Part 1 of 3

MOP Balance Druid Spellcast Priorities:

There are 3 new spells that are especially important to our rotation beginning in this patch. (I won’t say anything about most of the new level 86-90 stuff that will be introduced a month from now with the expansion pack since things tend to get changed before the actual launch.)

Incarnation: Chosen of Elune (Shapeshift) - Instant - 3 min cooldown
Activate Incarnation: Chosen of Elune for 30 sec. This improved Moonkin Form increases all Arcane and Nature damage done while Eclipse is active by 25%. You may shapeshift in and out of this improved Moonkin Form for the duration of Incarnation.

***** Nature's Vigil is a level 90 talent *****
Nature's Vigil - Instant - 3 min cooldown
Increases all damage and healing done by 20% for 30 sec. While active, all single-target healing spells also damage a nearby enemy target for 25% of the healing done, and all single-target damage spells and abilities also heal a nearby friendly target for 25% of the damage done..

Celestial Alignment - Instant - 3 min cooldown
Grants you the simultaneous damage benefit of both your Lunar Eclipse and Solar Eclipse, increasing damage done by your Nature and Arcane spells by 15%. In addition, casting Moonfire also applies the the periodic damage effect of Sunfire to your target. Activating this ability consumes all Lunar and Solar Energy and prevents gaining more during its duration. Lasts 15 sec..

Some keywords above that are very important:

CoE is only worth casting when you’re in an eclipse, but it doesn’t matter which one.

Nature’s Vigil will only cause bonus damage or healing based on single-target spells (not AoE.)

CA buffs both Nature and Arcane spells, but more importantly if you cast Moonfire it applies Sunfire too, and it empties your energy bar. Therefore, it is best if used when you are close to zero energy and just exited an eclipse because you won’t be wasting eclipsed energy.

Major changes to note:

Starfall resets upon entering Lunar eclipse, so that means you don’t have to hold off on casting it anymore until you’re in Lunar eclipse. (Note: Starfall scales with your buffs, so if you cast it right before entering Lunar eclipse, any stars that fall before eclipse will be unbuffed, however those that fall during eclipse will be buffed.)

Insect Swarm went away. You can now cast Sunfire whenever you want instead.

Nature’s Grace procs automatically upon entering an eclipse, so a nice haste boost occurs right when we’re ready to start nuking.

Typhoon no longer does damage. It only knocks the enemy targets backwards.

Our Hurricane spell now becomes Astral Storm when we are in Lunar eclipse, so we have a good Lunar aoe spell now besides just Starfall.

Not a change, but a reminder that:

Moonfire & Sunfire do not scale with your buffs, meaning if you cast MF during Lunar eclipse, every tick will be buffed. Same with Sunfire if you cast it during Solar eclipse. The opposite also holds true. Unbuffed MF and SF will tick at the unbuffed amount even if you enter the appropriate eclipse. You must refresh the dot upon entering eclipse if you want it to tick buffed.

Wild Mushroom: Detonate and Treants are buffed by Solar, so either use them during Solar eclipse or when you have one of those new cd spells activated.
Part 2 of 3

The core of the information below was taken from Cyous' post on page 43 (lol, buried) of the Balance Druid PvE thread in the Druid forum. I made some adjustments to the wording in order to make it easier to understand. I had a hard time understanding it until I read it over and over a few times, so I know other people would too.


Create two new macros:

/use Incarnation: Chosen of Elune
/use Nature's Vigil *** NV is a level 90 talent ***

/use Celestial Alignment
/use Berserking(Racial) -- Troll only
/use 13/14 (this refers to on-use Trinket 1 or 2)
/use Moonfire

We want to hit Lunar eclipse asap. This is the opposite of 4.3 when we tried to reach Solar first.

Why is Lunar eclipse the best place to start your rotation? Starfire hits a lot harder than Wrath now. This is also the reason why when you are using Incarnation or Celestial Alignment you should nuke with Starfire, not Wrath. Basically, if both Starfire and Wrath are all shiny and lit up on your spellbar, always choose Starfire. Just be sure you aren't so busy spamming Starfire that you don't notice Incarnation or Celestial Alignment have worn off and your energy bar is sitting there not moving like it should be. (Note: Starsurge is still better than either of these two, so use it every time it's off cd.)

Start the fight at 75 pre-Lunar energy (moving toward Lunar eclipse) with Astral Communion

Astral Communion Channeled
Commune with the sun and moon, gaining 25 Lunar or Solar energy every 1 sec for 4 sec. Generates the power type most beneficial to you.

Why start outside of an eclipse? Because Nature's Grace haste buff procs upon entering the eclipse.

Pulling in 3..2..1

Pre-potion (It will be “Potion of the Jade Serpent” when MoP hits)

Cast your 1st Starfall even though it's not currently eclipsed –because it will become buffed by Lunar eclipse after your next cast, AND it resets upon entering Lunar eclipse, so you’ll get to cast another one pretty soon!

Why not start your rotation with dots anymore? Because NG doesn't proc from a dot now; it procs from entering an eclipse (either one.) In just a couple seconds after starting your rotation, you will enter Lunar eclipse AND you'll cast Incarnation, so your dots will hit extra hard if you wait to cast them.

Cast Wrath (this will trigger Lunar Eclipse because you were already at 75 pre-Lunar, Wrath grants 15 Lunar energy, and Euphoria grants 15, so you just gained a total of 30 energy)

You may be tempted to cast Starfall again as soon as you enter Lunar eclipse. Don't do it, Why should you wait to cast Starfall again until the very first one wears off? The first one is buffed equally as much as the one you'll cast as soon as it wears off. Overwriting the first Starfall is a waste of perfectly good, equally buffed Starfall ticks.

Once you have entered Lunar Eclipse and Celestial Alignment is available:

Use Macro1: This means that all at the same time, your Arcane and Nature dmg will be buffed 25% by Chosen of Elune while you’re in that eclipse. (When MoP hits, if you choose Nature's Vigil as a level 90 talent, include it in Macro1 so your Arcane and Nature dmg will be buffed another 20% by Nature’s Vigil, and your single-target dmg spells will cause some healing output)

Cast Sunfire
Cast Moonfire
Cast Starsurge when it’s off cd, otherwise
Cast Starfire (multiple)
Cast Starfall when the previous Starfall fades before exiting Lunar eclipse

Use Macro2 after leaving Lunar Eclipse if possible: Celestial Alignment will empty out your energy bar (but hopefully you didn’t go very far past zero) and buff both Arcane and Nature dmg by 15%, and casting Moonfire will apply Sunfire as well.

Cast Starfall when the previous Starfall fades
Cast Moonfire (cast it again later when there is <= 1sec remaining on CA buff)
Cast Starsurge when it’s off cd, otherwise
Cast Starfire (multiple - until Solar Eclipse; it should only take 3 casts after CA wears off)

Once you have entered Solar Eclipse - when Celestial Alignment has recently ended:

Cast Sunfire (don't refresh asap after CA; only cast it when Sunfire duration <= 1sec)
Cast Moonfire (don't refresh asap after CA; only cast it when Moonfire duration <= 1sec)
Cast Starsurge when it’s off cd, otherwise
Cast Wrath (multiple)

Prior to exiting Solar Eclipse, clip your DoTs:
Sunfire (if remaining duration <= 6sec)
Moonfire (if remaining duration <= 4sec)

After exiting Solar eclipse,

Cast Starsurge when it’s off cd, otherwise
Cast Wrath (multiple - until Lunar Eclipse; should take 3 casts if you left Solar eclipse with 10 Lunar energy)

Once you have entered Lunar Eclipse and Celestial Alignment is on cd:

Cast Starfall
Cast Moonfire (clip your uneclipsed DoT)
Cast Sunfire (if Sunfire isn’t active, otherwise wait for eclipsed DoT to fade)
Cast Starsurge when it’s off cd, otherwise
Cast Starfire (multiple)

Prior to exiting Lunar Eclipse, clip your DoTs:
Moonfire (if remaining duration <= 6sec)
Sunfire (if remaining duration <= 4sec)

Cast Starfire until you reach Solar eclipse

Once you have entered Solar Eclipse –and Celestial Alignment is on cd:

Cast Sunfire (clip your uneclipsed DoT)
Cast Moonfire (if Moonfire isn’t active, otherwise wait for eclipsed DoT to fade)
Cast Starsurge when it’s off cd, otherwise
Cast Wrath (multiple)

Prior to exiting Solar Eclipse, clip your DoTs:
Sunfire (if remaining duration <= 6sec)
Moonfire (if remaining duration <= 4sec)

There are a couple videos in which Cyous demonstrates it.

Incarnation + Nature's Vigil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSorawobmSk

Multi-DOT Strategy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UJagG_dMU4

Some theorycrafters suggest that if you need to refresh both dots and you are currently in an eclipse, you should always cast the uneclipsed dot first because it will grant you a stack of Lunar Shower, so your eclipsed dot will then be buffed by both the eclipse and Lunar Shower. (Examples: In Solar eclipse, cast Moonfire first, then cast Sunfire. In Lunar eclipse, cast Sunfire first, then Moonfire.)
Part 3 of 3

Multi-DoT strategy

(I got this from the video linked in my previous post and also icy-veins.com)

Important: When multi-DoT'ing, apply your eclipsed DoT to every target, THEN apply your uneclipsed DoT to every target. So if in Solar eclipse, cast Sunfire on every target, THEN cast Moonfire on every target. If in Lunar, vice versa.

Use Starfall and Wild Mushrooms when they're off cd.

Keep in mind that Lunar Shower is now a default talent. Try not to let the Lunar Shower buff wear off; it only lasts 3 sec. If the trash pack is so big you decide to use Hurricane, only let it tick once or twice and get back to DoT'ing.

Lunar Shower
When you cast Moonfire or Sunfire, you gain Lunar Shower. Lunar Shower increases the direct damage done by your Moonfire and Sunfire spells by 45%, and reduces the mana cost by 30%. This effect stacks up to 3 times and lasts 3 sec.

In regards to cds, Chosen of Elune should be used when you can line it up with Celestial Alignment being used 15 sec after Incarnation is used. Why 15 sec? CoE lasts for 30 sec, and CA lasts for 15 sec. CoE only buffs dmg while you're in an eclipse or using CA. Therefore, by casting CA 15 sec before CoE ends, you will ensure that DoTs are buffed 25% for the full 30 sec.

Enter eclipse
Cast Chosen of Elune (Arcane and Nature dmg will be buffed 25% while in eclipse or CA)
Cast eclipsed DoTs on all the things; gain Lunar Shower buff
(15 secs after CoE) Cast Celestial Alignment (zeroes out energy bar, Arcane and Nature dmg will be buffed 15%, casting Moonfire applies Sunfire)
Cast Moonfire when DoTs are about to fall off while CA is active
Cast nukes quickly and get over to the next eclipse so your next round of DoTs will be eclipsed (CA will have worn off by then)


Crit is our best stat now. Yes, Haste gives extra dot ticks, however it no longer outweighs Crit. This is because when our dots crit, there's a chance that Shooting Stars will reset the cd on Starsurge, and when our nukes crit, it causes our dot timers to be extended. Therefore, you should follow this reforging rule:

Int > Spirit/Hit cap (1537 now = 15%) > 1589 Haste (3 ticks) breakpoint > Crit > Mastery > extra Haste

Once we hit level 90 and our gear will allow us to reach the higher Haste breakpoint:

Int > Spirit/Hit cap (1537 now = 15%) > 3099 Haste (4 ticks) breakpoint > Crit > Mastery > extra Haste
Wow, this is great. This is pretty much what I needed! I can wrap my mind around how the spells fit into the priority of things for sure now. Thanks so much! :D

Druid community is the best in game for sure :]
Also, can anyone give any feedback on Force of Nature so far? I understand given the tier it's in that there's most likely no instance that it'll be ideal to select, but I've always felt like they were a part of the Moonkin identity and I kind of miss them :C
I read somewhere they're both good choices, though Incarnation does a bit more dps.
Okay boys and girls, I keep seeing 1589 as our first haste breakpoint at 85, but what is that as a percentage? I'm trying to use the very broken Mr Robot to calculate the appropriate PvP gear with my own stat weights, but I need to calculate the correct haste percentage.
08/31/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Kinkin
Okay boys and girls, I keep seeing 1589 as our first haste breakpoint at 85, but what is that as a percentage? I'm trying to use the very broken Mr Robot to calculate the appropriate PvP gear with my own stat weights, but I need to calculate the correct haste percentage.

It's 12.41% (conversion factor is 128.05), but that's rounded. It's much more reliable to use ratings.
Ok, I'm getting extremely frustrated because I'm always "missing" on targets... But my hit is actually above cap, wth?

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