New Talent System

General Discussion
Prev 1 4 5 6 26 Next
But we still do that to be perfectly honest. We go and read up on what talents, glyphs and spells we should take. Yes at the moment there is debate on the benefits of one over the other but by the time we are at level 90 most classes will have set talent choices, with the top players min maxing by fights.

I agree, and even most websites said a couple specs u could pick. Now its cut and dry and theres only so many combinations.
I said "active subs". Active subs are the ones that log in at least 1 time per month. The 12 million number you are citing is not the total number of active subscriptions but the overall total number of accounts that are currently open with blizzard, not active. The number of losses is over 2 million active subs and the total number of active subs is actually less that 7 million at the moment. That information is readily available and you would know the difference if you weren't trying to just flame and not be part of the conversation.

How is it any different now?

Here's what most PVE balance druid builds will be based around.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#d8?|

Of the remaining three choices, tier 3 will likely be Mass Entanglement. Tier 4 will be either of the first two, but more likely Soul Of The Forest. Tier 5 just doesn't matter, but I'll bet everyone will go with Ursol's Vortex. But I'll be amazed if most PVE balance druids don't start with the three I linked as a base.

In fact, there's more engaging and interesting choice in the minor glyph selection than there is in the talent tree.


In terms of being a druid guide writer (and haven maintained druid talent guides in some capacity for years), I can pretty much say that the new talent trees have a lot more flexibility & less agreement now than ever before (and 2 of your 3 choices I haven't seen in any of the balance druid guides).

In addition, my blog spiked over 30,000 page views the day after the 4.0 pre-patch and only spiked at 11,000 page views the day after the 5.0 pre-patch (without any real significant decline in overall normal readership on non-patch weeks). So, as far as I can tell as a blogger, there seemed to be fewer people using google searches and external sources for getting talent builds based on metrics I have available to me. Thus, it's likely that a lot of people aren't having to spend quite as much time figuring out the talent system or relying on the external sources quite as heavily.

There is a lot more subtlety in the talent builds. For resto druids, the default easy-to-master choice is Feline Swiftness for a constant speed bonus. However, there are some circumstances where wild charge would be a much better talent, for example if you can master setting up shrooms in a desired location and then charging to them or using charge to get you to a stack point faster. There are also interesting ways for balance druids to use feral charge with the DPS component of Heart of the Wild to get better movement damage by charging to the boss and doing melee damage for those 45 seconds.

Also, the talent build you linked has renewal, but nature's swiftness is going to be better overall if you use it in places where the utility component could be better than just a self-heal (and NS+HT pairs well with DOC).

Overall, I think that as a guide writer, I have to give a "best" answer, even when that advantage is only in simulations. Also, talents were never really a particularly interesting part in the game for people other than theorycrafters like me who have to figure out what the best answer is. :)


Has it ever occurred to you that people have tried the new system and genuinely don't like it, for completely valid reasons? Different people like different things. Shocking, I know. Also, it's hard to take your comments seriously when they are always so insulting and hostile towards others who may not agree with you.

No - here's what's shocking - people who call someone's idea or opinion "BS" - as for example some responses to blue description of the philosophy behind the changes - not understanding why their own ideas are called the very same thing.
I wish people would stop comparing Mists talents to Cataclysm talents.

Cataclysm's talent system was an abysmal failure. That's why so many of us were so opposed to it when it came out. Blizzard's response was that the Cataclysm system would increase the diversity of builds. "It's all about where you put those last 10 points" - remember that line?

If you want to see a real talent system, look back to the Burning Crusade model.

Here's a Druid calculator. Build me what you think was the "cookie cutter" bear spec in Burning Crusade.

If you can.

http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=2438606_11


Kitty:
http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=2438606_11_7v550232132322125301251505e1m
Took me about a minute. The only choice I had was whether or not I wanted more armor for my kitty or RNG fear/stun resistance.

Bear:
http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=2438606_11_7v553232132320105301251505c101m
I took everything that increased threat and made me live longer. I could have left off a few points for threat and gotten more rage from Enrage and Furor, but I suspect that if I was tanking anything meaningful rage would not have been an issue.

Resto:
http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=2438606_11_701zp50550351531522531351
Quite literally nothing was of value outside the resto tree. I picked every talent that could conceivably be of use to a healer.

Balance:
http://www.wowprovider.com/?talent=2438606_11_7512022012533135231351v505e1m
I wasn't sure how good Omen of Clarity was (a sim would have told me), so I decided to get it along with reduced cast on healing touch at the cost of Thorns.

Feel free to tell me what I should have done differently, but I cannot see it. All in all I was not impressed. If that is really the best you can do then I am very glad we have the new system.
08/31/2012 07:48 PMPosted by Lissanna
talents were never really a particularly interesting part in the game for people other than theorycrafters like me who have to figure out what the best answer is. :)


The comparison I'd use to talents of the old days would be.

They were like the gearing system.
Here's a Druid calculator. Build me what you think was the "cookie cutter" bear spec in Burning Crusade.

If you can.

http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=2438606_11


I built cookie cutter builds in burning crusade for druids. Everyone still spec'd what we told them to. I could go back to my old files and pull out the cookie cutter builds, but I'm not sure that would help the argument. If you remember that raiding in TBC for resto druids comprised pretty much exclusively of casting lifebloom & rejuv, you can tell from looking at those talents how little they actually did.
08/31/2012 03:12 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
I love the new system. It brings choices and offers utility a lot of us didn't have before.


Cause one spec for all class specializations is choice right?
for one, the system is not "mainly" PvP. Saying its "mainly PvP" implies that the majority of talent choice are solely for PvP use. This is incorrect. While many talents and abilities in the game have BOTH pve and pvp uses, such as almost every spell you cast or ability you use, a few of the new talents, imo, provide a flexibility between both styles of gameplay.

While the talent trees are the same despite your spec, there are different applications of some talents depending on one's spec. Furthermore, many of the abilities that were available from your class are now defined by your spec. For example, as a Holy Paladin I have lost Holy Wrath. I can use that spell in a different spec, however.


You might be interested in what Greg Street (Ghostcrawler) had to say about the choices being pvp vs pve:

"It's not a matter of coming up with enough fun mechanics, which is challenging but ultimately doable. The problem is the extreme number of combinations. When you have such a gigantic matrix, the chances of having unbeatable synergies, or combinations of talents that just don't work together is really high. That's not lazy design. That is recognizing how math works."
He acknowledged that many of the new talents are situational, and appeared to be skewed towards player-versus-player rather than optimal performance in a raid. But he also admitted that it was Blizzard's responsibility to make WOW's player-versus-environment gameplay more interesting to encourage the use of those abilities.
"Now if you're a solo player or a fairly casual raider and you don't often find the need to use crowd control or hit a defensive cooldown, then maybe the choice isn't compelling," he said.

You can read the full interview here:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-12-08-blizzards-street-defends-wow-talents-revamp
08/31/2012 05:10 PMPosted by Crithto
'simple to learn, hard to master'

Lol saying this won't help you. The talent system is a joke now.
08/31/2012 06:00 PMPosted by Irocain


No he is absolutely right. The lack of choices with the cata talent changes were a direct result of the design team, you know, designing them that way. I leveled up my priest using shadow and disc talents - it was great. I made the choices. This was not an option in cata.

Comparing the cata talent system to the mop one is comparing a turd to a turd. Blizzard had a great opportunity to really overhaul the talent system into a dynamic and meaningful one and they blew it.


All because you people can't give up your hybrid specs. Let it go. It is gone and never coming back. Take a long hard look at the new system and actually spend time playing it. Most of you complaining about this have barely even touched the new system and expect to be taken seriously.


^
Hybrid specs were NOT viable in any endgame content, ever. There were a couple of them that had some totally unintended benefits, that could be somewhat useful in PVP, or while soloing. But the vast majority of them were useless. Jack of all trades, master of none, etc.
You might be interested in what Greg Street (Ghostcrawler) had to say about the choices being pvp vs pve:

"Now if you're a solo player or a fairly casual raider and you don't often find the need to use crowd control or hit a defensive cooldown, then maybe the choice isn't compelling," he said.

You can read the full interview here:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-12-08-blizzards-street-defends-wow-talents-revamp


So, hopefully not taking this out of context, but is this him basically admitting that the overwhelming majority of the playerbase won't actually care about the talent shrubs?
The problem isn't just the talent system. It's the combined effect of how they changed all the classes.

There was a blue post asking about what talents are missing, but alas, a minor talent change for each of the classes probably wouldn't resolve how many players feel about their class. We're probably stuck with what we have for the rest of the expansion. Which leaves players wondering, "should I really get MoP?"

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum