Prot Warriors Stat Priority as of 5.0.5

Warrior
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09/07/2012 11:07 PMPosted by Mércénáryz
The only reason you should be going for hit/exp as a tank is if you completely fail at holding aggro with the moves you are given. Mitigation > DPS imo

Um...you will not be able to keep shield block up nearly as much, if you are getting misses and dodges on your shield slam /revenge.
Cata is over. This is the new model. Yes tanks want hit and expertise now.
Um...you will not be able to keep shield block up nearly as much, if you are getting misses and dodges on your shield slam /revenge.
Cata is over. This is the new model. Yes tanks want hit and expertise now.


^ This

I converted from:

Mastery>Stam>Parry=Dodge>Hit=Exp pre 5.0

to:

Stam>Hit Cap=Exp Cap>STR>Parry>Dodge>Mastery

And it made a world of difference. Go ahead and try to tank something and miss your revenges and shield slams and wonder why your healers will ask, "Why are you taking so much damage now?" 5.0 changed how we gear, reforge, and ultimately play the class. Rage is your best way to smooth out dmg taken, you HAVE to have it, exactly when you need it. Right now STR gives more parry percentage than actual parry rating, which is why it's higher, but that will change as we level to 90.

09/07/2012 11:07 PMPosted by Mércénáryz
The only reason you should be going for hit/exp as a tank is if you completely fail at holding aggro with the moves you are given. Mitigation > DPS imo


The old ways of the prot warrior are gone, adapt and overcome, or wonder why you are under performing. We aren't doing this to be DPS Meter !@#$%s, we need the rage, and the only way we are making it is from landing strikes.
A side question is how much exp should you go for. Mr. Robot (using Hit/Exp > Str > Parry=Dodge > Mastery as a model) wants you get enough exp to not be parried, do you need to do this or is just getting enough to not be dodged enough?
It still hurts to get parried, it actually gets blazed in my mind when it happens. I'll be sitting there, waiting for a S&B proc or for SS to come off CD. When I can finally use it, it goes off, and you hear that dreaded sound of a parry and don't see your rage bar give you that extra bit you needed for SB or a full Barrier...

It sucks, but I'd say it doesn't happen on most encounters more than a handful of times, I went for the 7.5 and 7.5 and don't see myself getting that extra expertise personally.
09/08/2012 05:58 AMPosted by Ayduin
A side question is how much exp should you go for. Mr. Robot (using Hit/Exp > Str > Parry=Dodge > Mastery as a model) wants you get enough exp to not be parried, do you need to do this or is just getting enough to not be dodged enough?

Just soft cap. No tank in the history of tanks has sought the expertise hard cap.
I converted from:

Mastery>Stam>Parry=Dodge>Hit=Exp pre 5.0

to:

Stam>Hit Cap=Exp Cap>STR>Parry>Dodge>Mastery

And it made a world of difference. Go ahead and try to tank something and miss your revenges and shield slams and wonder why your healers will ask, "Why are you taking so much damage now?" 5.0 changed how we gear, reforge, and ultimately play the class. Rage is your best way to smooth out dmg taken, you HAVE to have it, exactly when you need it. Right now STR gives more parry percentage than actual parry rating, which is why it's higher, but that will change as we level to 90.


I did almost the same thing, just a quick question though. What puts mastery below Strength Parry and Dodge. I know that mastery doesn't increase our block by much but it does increase our crit block significantly. With SB being up as often as we can have it would it not be more beneficial than parry, or at the very least Dodge?
my current stat priority is Stam>hit=exp>Mastery>strength>parry>dodge
If I'm completely out to lunch, I would love to understand why?
09/08/2012 03:38 AMPosted by Sancalin
The old ways of the prot warrior are gone, adapt and overcome, or wonder why you are under performing. We aren't doing this to be DPS Meter !@#$%s, we need the rage, and the only way we are making it is from landing strikes.


That's exactly the thing, I was not underperforming in the slightest, aggro was fine. Hits were landing, and shield block was up almost every cd.

Now mind you I experienced warrior tanking this week from both being the TANK and also being the HEALER responsible for keeping said warr tank alive, before coming to this conclusion.

I, forged as I have it now (Str > Parry > Dodge > Mastery > Hit/Exp) , tanked Heroic DS's Morchok/Ultraxion/Warmaster as well as a couple of HoTs with barely any issues, however

I then joined a group on my healer priest using a warrior tank in the same role however he was using the (7.5 Hit/Exp > All Other Secondary Stats) and he was getting utterly destroyed from every "big hit" you could imagine from the same bosses.

He was tanking the Kohcrom side and their group wiped because he went down after a Stomp...a friggin stomp.

He tanked Ultraxion and in those split seconds when he was tanking with/without that run off debuff of taking 100% extra damage from Ultraxion he got crushed and died a couple of times because the damage he took was quicker than my heals (or the other paladin's) got off. And mind you im talking about 100% to dead damage spikes.

Sorry but I refuse to conform until I see actual results. In addition, I lcopied my (lower geared than I am now) toon on the beta months ago and tanked several of the heroics and raids using the 4.3 stat priorities and didn't have a problem either, so I think you should test it before you dismiss it.
@mercenary I'm curious to know when this tank was gettin trucked, was it shortly after the patch came out or what.... cause they put out a hotfix for warriors that essentially fixed the spiky dmg that warriors were experiencing.

I just tanked all of H DS friday night and had 0 issues with any of the fights, I even solo tanked Yorsahj which would never of happened before, and solo tanked Madness. The dmg I was recieving was more than manageable. (alot of this is prob due to the 35% nerf, but thats not the point, as your tank was still having issues with Morchok)

If it was after the hotfix to warriors, then there is somethin seriously wrong with the tank you were healing and they need to do something to sort themselves out.
09/08/2012 12:28 PMPosted by Biggmac
I did almost the same thing, just a quick question though. What puts mastery below Strength Parry and Dodge.


Found this on page 1 of this thread for ya from a different commentor...

09/05/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Aggnicia
I honestly don't think mastery is the go-to stat anymore since hits NOW go through two rolls - one for parry/dodge and the second for block should you fail to parry/dodge.


And this is how I expand on it...

Strength: For Warrior tanks, Strength gives parry.

Parry: chance for the attack to be stopped/repelled
(no damage and/or reduced damage if successful)

Dodge: chance for the attack to miss you completely
(no damage)

Mastery: increases chance to block
(see below)

Block: Reduces damage by frontal physical attacks by 30%

With the changes to Shield Block in 5.0.4 Shield Block should now and can basically be up every cd which in theory means every 6 of 9 seconds you'll have your shield up. Negating the usage for passive block

The reasoning behind the other two stats becoming more important (in my opinion of course) is due to those 3 seconds of Shield Block downtime requiring actual mitigation... which even by default is passive so it occurs even when your shield is up.
09/08/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Biggmac
@mercenary I'm curious to know when this tank was gettin trucked, was it shortly after the patch came out or what.... cause they put out a hotfix for warriors that essentially fixed the spiky dmg that warriors were experiencing.


I was not aware that there was a hot fix, but as I stated above both raids took place on the same day, part of this weeks lockout, and whereas he got crushed. Mine did not.
For more consideration just joined an LFR (i know not the best place to get results)

Ultraxion -

Prot Paladin got wrecked by LFR Ultrax and died to damage (and not Fading Light as most LFR tanks tend to do) I solo'd the remaining of the fight, he leaves.

Warmaster -

Druid tank joins group for Warmaster, I grab the first two Slayers in a row and combined with accurate use of debuffs + shield block I manage to hold onto 6 stacks of the physical debuff without taking much damage.

I solo tank Warmaster from 70% to about 12%ish because Druid gets wrecked before even recieving his 2nd sunder and dies to a Shockwave after I taunted to prevent him dying to Warmaster's actual swingss. I manage to hold out until 6 stacks of sunder armor and finally die, luckily group manages to kill him.

Physical damage death with -120% armor will do that

Spine -

Same druid is put on Blood duty during Spine, no issues with Amalg incoming damage on me

Madness -

Accurate use of Dream/Shield Wall/Shield Block I take little to no damage from the first physical impale but the second (due to OT not taunting Corruption off of me at all) still managed to do 40% of my health in physical damage with dream up (due to of course having the 100% increased impale damage debuff)

I get targetted by first set of Shrapnel and with Shield Block up + Dream i took no damage from the physical attack

Manage to hold Terror to 10 stacks of Tetanus before dying as dps was very slow at killing my target.

Spell damage death though so can't really count that.
Please, everybody discard the above posters butt load of misinformation.

Exp/hit is NOT needed for holding aggro. The point behind getting exp/hit capped is for rage. If you are not at the cap, you will miss nearly every hit which will equal less (a lot less) rage. Your rage is now used to lower the amount of incoming damage. Less rage = more incoming damage.

Thus, exp/hit cap = more rage = less incoming damage = win.

Keeping in mind, if you have a tank in 5.0 who isn't fully aware of how to actually use the rage (I'm nearly positive this is what happened to the tank you referred to earlier) they will most definitely get smashed, despite how they distribute their stats.

You can distribute your stats how you want, if you don't understand the changes that have been made to the Prot Warrios, you will get smashed regardless.

I've tried the full stamina gem stacking idea, it worked fine. However, I do not recommend stacking pure stamina. It will work (I've tested) however the benefit of having other stats is too great. Stacking stamina will not actually increase your HP all that much. Unless you were previously using a setup that consisted of 1 stamina trinket and 1 other stat trinket and you start using two stamina trinkets, then your HP will significantly increase. I do now recommend using two (ilvl397+) stamina trinkets.

When I first signed on for 5.0, after setting up my talents/glyphs, the very first thing I did was went and solo killed Gamon, as I know how much I used to kick his !@# before 5.0. First attempt, I died as I clearly could no longer do the exact same thing pre 5.0. After tweaking my rotation and figuring out my new ability priority, I went back to Gamon. He was dead, I was alive with 100% of my health.

The new shield barrier combined with the new impending victory is OP if used correctly.

Now please, stop spreading misinformation. People like you are making other Warriors miserable as they are following advice like yours and are simply failing.

My advice, is to hit the exp/hit soft cap, depending on your gear, this should be done by reforging.

After that, Stamina. However, I do not recommend putting a pure stamina gem in ALL of your sockets. Reason being, is you do not actually get that much HP and is not worth losing the other stat gain in my opinion. What I recommend doing is splitting it. Keep putting pure stamina in blue sockets, parry/stamina in red sockets. Mastery/stamina in yellow sockets. This will get you a bit of stamina + some nice avoidance/dmg reduction stats.

I've tested many different stat priority's I found that mixing them like I mentioned above is currently the best way. Going pure stamina causes slightly increased damage, which of course you have more HP to consume more damage, I don't see this benefiting a healer at all raid wise. I think it's totally fine if you want to go this route, but if you haven't already I recommend you try something different.

So, the stat priority for win = Hit/Exp soft cap>Stamina>Mastery>Parry>Dodge.

If you or someone you know is still getting smashed even after having a somewhat correct stat priority, they are having a totally DIFFERENT issue other than how they are distributing there stats. The issue they are having has to do with how they are using their rage!
hi i am a tank who has figured out how to be successful at least for these last 2 weeks of cata.
above me are a couple more.
we are all saying the same thing. hit/exp 7.5% because no revenge or SS connecting results in low rage.
stacking mastery increases block chance at what appears to be a higher dr than parry(refreshes revenge for 15 rage block gives 10)

so if you like to argue for nothing but the sake of arguing go ahead. if that is the case maybe ill apply to your guild show them i have half an idea what im doing and get you benched.
Stam > Mastery > hit/expertise > parry/dodge
Deleted
Exp/hit is NOT needed for holding aggro. The point behind getting exp/hit capped is for rage. If you are not at the cap, you will miss nearly every hit which will equal less (a lot less) rage. Your rage is now used to lower the amount of incoming damage. Less rage = more incoming damage.


Hit and Expertise are, by design used to make sure your moves are not missed/parried/or dodged.

09/08/2012 10:04 PMPosted by Mércénáryz
That's exactly the thing, I was not underperforming in the slightest, aggro was fine. Hits were landing, and shield block was up almost every cd.


If you are not having an issue with your moves landing, there is NO reason to forge into "stats that assist you with landing hits" i.e. hit and expertise.

09/09/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Giibert
Now please, stop spreading misinformation. People like you are making other Warriors miserable as they are following advice like yours and are simply failing.


This is not a guide, nor did I ever intend it to be. I was experimenting with what the "other sites" were saying and coming to my own conclusion. If you are a fool and blindly listen to others without testing it yourself, you deserve to be mis informed.

And in closing, I Mercenaryz, approve of using whatever build you feel confortable with. But I am recommending the Str>P>D>M>H>E one

However...

09/09/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Giibert
When I first signed on for 5.0, after setting up my talents/glyphs, the very first thing I did was went and solo killed Gamon,


This is something I had to chuckle at, while you opened your thread claiming that everyone above you was giving a "butt-load of misinformation" you supply us with your experiences with Gamon.

Because you see, in your mind, using Heroic DS, LFR DS, and HoT 5 Mans fails in comparison to the combat data you acquire from the "Anti Camp Tauren Lord of the Strength Valley"
This is something I had to chuckle at, while you opened your thread claiming that everyone above you was giving a "butt-load of misinformation" you supply us with your experiences with Gamon.


I was not saying everyone above me was giving misinformation. I said the "above poster" I.E, YOU. That was not directed at to anyone other than yourself.

I never said using heroic DS, LFR or HOT's fails in comparison to a Gamon fight. My point was a comparison to one fight before 5.0 and that same fight after 5.0. Clearly testing what stat priority works best would best be tested in a heroic DS. However comparing yourself to the exact same fight (in this case, Gamon) would scale to about the same.

Not sure if you missed the point here, or if you just lack common sense. I suppose I could lay it out for you. Since you are probably thinking Gamon is a noob enemy to test yourself against, I'll put it in different terms for you.

1. Fight boss. Kill boss with personal health remaining at 30%.
2. Change stats around.
3. Fight boss. Kill boss with personal health remaining at 100%.

Exp/hit is NOT needed for holding aggro. The point behind getting exp/hit capped is for rage. If you are not at the cap, you will miss nearly every hit which will equal less (a lot less) rage. Your rage is now used to lower the amount of incoming damage. Less rage = more incoming damage.

Hit and Expertise are, by design used to make sure your moves are not missed/parried/or dodged.

Thanks for clarifying my point? By (in your terms) making your moves not miss/parry/etc., you therefore gain more rage than if you would miss/parry/etc. I'm well aware hit/exp was used for threat (and still would help with threat). However the point of people saying to get hit/exp has nothing to do with threat and all to do with rage (now).

As I stated earlier, and I'm sure you are aware of, more rage = less incoming damage.

I'm going to go ahead and end that there. The rest of your post is more useless information.

I just hope that nobody looking for information on prot stats comes upon any of your postings and follows your recommendations. As you are telling people to stack strength.

/facepalm
09/05/2012 05:04 PMPosted by Ðemolition
Stamina > Hit/Exp > STR ~ Parry > other stuff


I tend to think this is right because of the emphasis on active mitigation coupled with the new 2 roll system. It seems to me that missing yellows, particularly shield slam is going to be very very bad.

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