Moonfarespam: The Moonkin PvE Guide (5.2)

Druid
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10/03/2012 10:28 AMPosted by Slippykins
As far as I've tested on WrathCalcs, hitting that 5273 haste breakpoint will be best until we get 4pc T14. It's entirely possible, I'm sitting at 4588 haste, and I still have a 442 hat on (loss of stats + gem). Think I only have a 462 ilvl or something.


Oh wow you're right, for some reason I wrote down 5723 on my boomkin paper haha. Please excuse my random bout of Dyslexia...
Edit: I'm assuming from your deleted post you figured it out, so we'll just leave it at that.

:)
Yeah, I figured it out - thanks though (= Finally understood what it meant after thinking "Well durr, if you're getting 8 ticks it obviously means 5273 literal rating" hehe
I've been gone for a year and am happy to see you are still doing these guides :3.
thank you Eluial
Stone Guard, roll your DOTs on the target-to-be. Refresh as needed on the main. I typically do a refresh prior to leaving Eclipse out of habit now.

Feng, rotational for the most part. Not much more to add.

Spiritbinder, I go in with group 3 of 3 and "clean-up" with Inc+CA and pretty much implode the entire room of adds (bwauhahahaha.) I should log it on my own, I'm pushing probably 70k-80k...not 26k.

Spirit Kings, play the mechanics, DOT everything that moves...really not hard at all.

Elegon, ahaha. ahahaha. good luck. i know 10man is a joke compared to 25man so i wont even touch this fight. it requires you to play perfectly, everyone, and we killed it 20sec after the berserk. so yeah...good luck.
On Feng, I started the fight with my cds, then they came back up while he was almost out of phase 1. I held off popping them again though until phase 2 started to avoid wasting buffed nukes and dots during an earthquake when our Hit is reduced by 75%.

Edit: Oh and for Feng I changed my talent to Wild Charge so I could bounce backward when I got the fire and needed to place it on the outer edge of the platform to get it as far away from him as possible. Also was helpful during Arcane Resonance.

10/05/2012 01:25 AMPosted by Cyous
Spiritbinder, I go in with group 3 of 3 and "clean-up" with Inc+CA and pretty much implode the entire room of adds (bwauhahahaha.)

We haven't killed the 3rd boss yet, but I know what you mean. I went in with group 1 and absolutely murdered the adds with CA and NV.

I timed it so at the start of the fight I hit Lunar eclipse, popped Incarnation, then by the time the spirit totem was dead, I had just left eclipse, popped CA and NV, and had time to dot the boss before going in.

The 2nd time I went in though, I made the mistake of dotting up adds with weaker dots and not nuking them down, so the raid dmg was just too much. We'll get it tonight though.
Hrm... was just reading the EJ guide thread and they're suggesting use only secondary stat gems. Last I checked WC, even crit wasn't worth half of int. But... I wasn't using a pre-raid profile and it was a while ago. I'll have to look into it. I'm having a hard time moving away from the MOAR INT paradigm =\
WoWreforge wont work for me
10/05/2012 07:44 PMPosted by Ronnylandau
WoWreforge wont work for me

Would you care to elaborate a bit more? It's working just fine for me.
If anyone wants to see a video example of the boss fights from a Boomkin point-of-view, I have been Fraps'ing our kills and uploading them here: http://www.youtube.com/user/SanctuaryForOldSouls

It's just the first 3 bosses for now. (I did terrible on Stone Guards. Was so flustered during the fight and made so many mistakes. Almost better to just ignore that video.) My rotation isn't perfect, I made mistakes with fight mechanics, and my dps isn't top-notch, but you get the idea. And if you have tips, I'm open to them.

(Sorry, I know my UI was insanely crowded on Stone Guards. I moved some things around last night after I saw what a wreck that was in the video. I'll take another video this week and replace that one so you can see what actually happened behind all the crap that was in the way in this one.)
Just a few questions, as my mind has been completely blown lately:

First off, have you seen/heard of boomkins using Heart of the Wild to go kitty and do more dps than their normal rotation? I was wondering how that would play into the numbers, because on WrathCalcs, HotW + SotF is the best combination currently, especially for a sustained dps fight, and I don't think that is considering the 20k dps increase I get while using HotW in catform. Or have I been a fool this whole time, and have been using a talent that was meant to push me into kitty for a short while so that my dps would go up?

If you look into the cat form with HotW dps, when would be a good time to use this? Perhaps after Celestial Alignment falls off in the beginning of the fight?

Secondly, I am currently refreshing my dots ONLY when they are <2s remaining. I was under the impression that the haste and spellpower from a DoT was kept if the DoT was refreshed at this time. Just now, I've been told that this is not the case. Now I ask, when should I reapply my DoTs? Like you said, before leaving an eclipse or before Nature's Grace falls off, depending on which comes first?
Some things:
10/06/2012 02:31 PMPosted by Eluial
WoWreforge wont work for me

Would you care to elaborate a bit more? It's working just fine for me.

So, it's not working anymore. In fact, I can't find a single reforge web app or addon that is working properly. Most of the problems seem to stem from them not recognizing that exp converts to spell crit, but there are other problems as well (including in game paper doll not converting hit rating into hit % correctly...).

AND wrathcalcs armory import is not working for me! So I'm kind of at my wits end right now in terms of my gear.

First off, have you seen/heard of boomkins using Heart of the Wild to go kitty and do more dps than their normal rotation? I was wondering how that would play into the numbers, because on WrathCalcs, HotW + SotF is the best combination currently, especially for a sustained dps fight, and I don't think that is considering the 20k dps increase I get while using HotW in catform. Or have I been a fool this whole time, and have been using a talent that was meant to push me into kitty for a short while so that my dps would go up?

If you look into the cat form with HotW dps, when would be a good time to use this? Perhaps after Celestial Alignment falls off in the beginning of the fight?

There's a good deal of discussion about this strategy, but no real answers that I've seen so far. The best I can do for you right now is if you find this fun, by all means do it.

The reason you're seeing HotW and SotF beat out Inc/NV on wrathcalcs is because of the way WC calculates/simulates DPS. There is no fight length - everything is just averaged out. It's the same reason why some trinkets can be over or under valued on WC. So anything that gives you strong burst isn't going to show up as strong as it should (in other words, WC undervalues burst). The Inc/NV combo is very strong, and I feel fairly comfortable (as in, I feel backed by maths) by saying that in MOST fights it's going to be our strongest combo. But there are definitely some wonky fights this tier, so it's still worth exploring the talents and seeing what fits best where.

Secondly, I am currently refreshing my dots ONLY when they are <2s remaining. I was under the impression that the haste and spellpower from a DoT was kept if the DoT was refreshed at this time. Just now, I've been told that this is not the case. Now I ask, when should I reapply my DoTs? Like you said, before leaving an eclipse or before Nature's Grace falls off, depending on which comes first?

If you refresh a dot when it has 1 tick remaining, you don't lose that remaining tick, and that remaining tick keeps all its old values (mastery, SP... at this point haste doesn't really matter). However, the new dot you've applied will have new values that are snapshot (snapshotted? it's really late...) when you cast it. So yes, the new dot will have different haste, mastery (if applicable) and SP values.

I have been attempting to follow the rule of refreshing my eclipsed dot before NG falls off or before I exit eclipse (whichever comes first). The only time this is probably a bad idea is during heroism, in which case it should really only be once per eclipse.

When refreshing in general (as in, you're not needing to clip a dot) the <2s rule still holds. It's really actually <1 tick remaining, so at higher haste levels that will not be 2s, but given reaction time and all that, <2s is a good rule of thumb.
So I've been waiting around for tiered BiS lists to get posted, and all I've found so far is what Slippykins recommends for heroic modes, which looks pretty spot on.

My main issue is that I'm not entirely sure what gear to aim for in normal modes and pre-elite bosses. The heroic BiS lists are tailored to the haste breakpoints and hit cap so closely, that decking out in normal versions of the same gear will cause us to fall massively short with certain stats. Obviously, an upgrade is an upgrade. But I'd prefer to not sponge up all the gear that could be going to the other casters in my raid, assuming it's not all that great for me.

So, my main question is, should I just attempt to grab any haste or crit piece that drops? I normally look at Greylo's lists because I trust him immensely, but it appears that in his simulations, he used gems that are no longer considered good for us (according to EJ at least). He also admits that his lists are not complete yet, so I'm not sure how reliable they'll actually be.

Our first raid is coming up on Wednesday, and I need to have a solid idea of what gear I'm actually aiming for before killing the bosses, rather than making wishy-washy decisions on the fly.
10/09/2012 05:42 AMPosted by Tree
Our first raid is coming up on Wednesday, and I need to have a solid idea of what gear I'm actually aiming for before killing the bosses, rather than making wishy-washy decisions on the fly.

Crit.
10/09/2012 01:59 AMPosted by Eluial
The reason you're seeing HotW and SotF beat out Inc/NV on wrathcalcs is because of the way WC calculates/simulates DPS. There is no fight length - everything is just averaged out. It's the same reason why some trinkets can be over or under valued on WC. So anything that gives you strong burst isn't going to show up as strong as it should (in other words, WC undervalues burst). The Inc/NV combo is very strong, and I feel fairly comfortable (as in, I feel backed by maths) by saying that in MOST fights it's going to be our strongest combo. But there are definitely some wonky fights this tier, so it's still worth exploring the talents and seeing what fits best where.


Well I noticed I do a lot more dps with this form than I do with my regular dps rotation, and even with Nature's Vigil + CA + Incarnation, I still don't do anywhere near as much dps as I would just sitting in kitty keeping up rake. I have to say though, I very much prefer SotF over incarnation, because I hate not being in an eclipse, but I'd hate to be picking something that is just stupidly underpowered in comparison to Incarnation + NV.
10/09/2012 01:59 AMPosted by Eluial
So, it's not working anymore. In fact, I can't find a single reforge web app or addon that is working properly. Most of the problems seem to stem from them not recognizing that exp converts to spell crit, but there are other problems as well (including in game paper doll not converting hit rating into hit % correctly...).
wowreforge is working...kinda. you just have to update the stats on any honor or justice point items, and add in the stats from enchants. It's really easy to just add the stats on your engi helm and then lock it if you are an engineer, ghost iron dragonling if you have that, or failing that by just picking an item not to reforge and adding them there.
10/08/2012 11:22 PMPosted by Joleen
If you look into the cat form with HotW dps, when would be a good time to use this? Perhaps after Celestial Alignment falls off in the beginning of the fight?


Just going off how !@#$ing ridiculously moonkitty scales with spellpower, I would say right at the beginning of a fight, when you have your pre-pot, weapon enchant, trinket icds all up. And your next pot should be when you next go moonkitty, unless the fight requires otherwise.
10/09/2012 01:59 AMPosted by Eluial
If you refresh a dot when it has 1 tick remaining, you don't lose that remaining tick, and that remaining tick keeps all its old values (mastery, SP... at this point haste doesn't really matter).


Hmm was testing this earlier and it seems that just like in Cata the last tick doesn't keep its original stats when you refresh it. I remember this definitely existed in Cata as aff warlocks used to time bane of doom refreshes to get 5 buffed ticks by their demon soul, as opposed to just 4, although I didn't check if it was the same for moonkins, just assumed it was.

It does seem to be the case currently though. Assuming 8 dot ticks without Nature's grace up, if you refresh an uneclipsed moonfire with an eclipsed one, you get 6 uneclipsed ticks and 8 eclipsed ones, so it could work in our advantage too.

To that end, I'm left wondering if it might be somewhat better to let your last round of INC/NV/CA buffed dots actually fall off instead of refreshing them at < 1 sec
Our first raid is coming up on Wednesday, and I need to have a solid idea of what gear I'm actually aiming for before killing the bosses, rather than making wishy-washy decisions on the fly.

Crit.

Is that really correct for entry level gear acquisition though?

It seems that on the MMOChamp and EJ forums, everyone is advocating hitting that 5273 haste breakpoint ASAP. They claim it's so important, that if we're close enough we should even sacrifice hit for it.

Obviously, hitting the haste breakpoint will come naturally with higher gear levels. I'm around 900 rating short of hitting the breakpoint, so wouldn't it be better to aim for haste gear over crit when it comes to the first two or three gear slots? At least until I can comfortably pick up crit gear without dropping below 5273?

Or should I just say "screw it" and pick up any haste OR crit piece that drops? Or just aim for crit and wait for the haste to come with ilevel?

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