5.4 PVP Stat Guide

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Hey Baconn.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/7207170
October 8 Hotfix

PvP
Healing and shielding effects applied to players that have been involved in PvP combat are now reduced by 15%.
veteran tank here ive literally been tanking it lately in dungeons so i thought id take a refresher course and in light of the new expac paladins have been nerfed a lot compared to cata so i saw this thread and it was a great read it helped me on the core basics something ive forgotton over the years

thanks
quick question
How does a Rogues elusiveness interact with PvP resilience?
Are they stacked or are they used one after the other?
FIX THE BOTS IN BGS WE CANT PLAY BGS WITHOUT REAL PLAYERS
If I've read this guide right, it would seem that point for point PvP Resilience is a better stat the PvP Power, at least in terms of effective health. Why is it then that everyone has PvP Power as a higher priority than resilience? It seems all the high ranked players are gemming for Power and every guide except this one suggest Power is the better stat aswel.
i gem for pvp power. i have found it personally helps me cut through people better.
rule of thumb for pure survivability in PvP: without considering socket bonuses, if you decide to put a single Mystic King's Amber in any socket over a Solid Majestic Zircon, then it does not make sense to ever stop doing that.

if at a certain point, you realize, "hey, Solid Majestic Zircon gives more effective health than Mystic King's Amber!" well, then you shouldn't have used that first Mystic King's Amber to begin with.

most people won't read through the OP's long essay, but this short rule of thumb will help them gear their toons for pvp.

i used the level 70 gems, but the rule itself applies to all 1 resil vs 1.5 stamina gems, like Mystic Lightstone vs Solid Deepholm Iolite.
Tacticss- I have no idea what your "rule of thumb" describes. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you want to elaborate, please start another thread. This thread is stickied because Eldacar took the time to break down Resilience and Power with pretty sound explanations- especially considering he didn't bog the readers down with too much math, yet at the same time we can tell that he used math to support his post.

Eldacar- thanks! Made sense to me. Your point re: the current value of gems is spot on- it is interesting how blizzard doubled the value of non-primary stats on some of the gems. I look forward to finding out how I will optimize PvP power vs. Spell Power and how much resilience is comfortable in arenas. As I'm sure you know, there are even more variables like one's team composition and my favorite variable- lag :)

Good job, +1!
quick question
How does a Rogues elusiveness interact with PvP resilience?
Are they stacked or are they used one after the other?

The game first determines if the hit will land, then calculates how much damage it will do. So if you were going to calculate out the effect they both have on incoming damage over the long term it is a multiplicative relationship. IE with 30% avoidance and 50% resilience you would take 35% of normal damage in the long term.

veteran tank here ive literally been tanking it lately in dungeons so i thought id take a refresher course and in light of the new expac paladins have been nerfed a lot compared to cata so i saw this thread and it was a great read it helped me on the core basics something ive forgotton over the years

thanks

Glad you found it helpful!

11/13/2012 12:17 PMPosted by Vendettá
i gem for pvp power. i have found it personally helps me cut through people better.

If you are looking to do more damage in PVP then PVP Power is generally the best way to go. If you are looking to add survivability gem Resilience.

rule of thumb for pure survivability in PvP: without considering socket bonuses, if you decide to put a single Mystic King's Amber in any socket over a Solid Majestic Zircon, then it does not make sense to ever stop doing that.

if at a certain point, you realize, "hey, Solid Majestic Zircon gives more effective health than Mystic King's Amber!" well, then you shouldn't have used that first Mystic King's Amber to begin with.

most people won't read through the OP's long essay, but this short rule of thumb will help them gear their toons for pvp.

i used the level 70 gems, but the rule itself applies to all 1 resil vs 1.5 stamina gems, like Mystic Lightstone vs Solid Deepholm Iolite.

I haven't done calculations for the scaling and effect of these stats at lower levels so I cannot speak to the veracity of your rule of thumb. Do you have any math or other evidence to support your claims?

A lot of people seem to come to the forums making these types of claims that X is better than Y without ever giving a source or showing any objective factual proof of their claim. By all means gem your own character however you want, however if you are going to make recommendations to other people about how they should gem or gear it helps to backup what you say with some supporting evidence.

Eldacar- thanks! Made sense to me. Your point re: the current value of gems is spot on- it is interesting how blizzard doubled the value of non-primary stats on some of the gems. I look forward to finding out how I will optimize PvP power vs. Spell Power and how much resilience is comfortable in arenas. As I'm sure you know, there are even more variables like one's team composition and my favorite variable- lag :)

Good job, +1!

I am glad you enjoyed the guide Gentryy, I also find it interesting how they doubled the stat value on the PVP gems. Blizzard really seems to want PVP'ers using the PVP gems to gear up for both offense and defense. Like you said though there are a lot of variables, and while PVP power does seem to be the best offensive stat for most people I have never felt comfortable making a hard and fast claim about it, there are just too many factors that go into it.

FIX THE BOTS IN BGS WE CANT PLAY BGS WITHOUT REAL PLAYERS

I would love to see the bots gone too, but I am not sure why you are posting that here. I don't work for Blizzard so I cant do anything about it, and it isn't really related to thread topic.
Thank you for this thread. It taught me a lot about these two new attributes that have been introduced. I love pvp more than anything in this game, so this really helped out.
Ok so whos gona summarize this for me in 3 sentences?
what he said....^-----
So... thinking simple about gemming, the best to do is something like:
red: Bold Primordial Ruby, Delicate Primordial Ruby or Brilliant Primordial Ruby
blue: Stormy River's Heart
yellow: Mystic Sun's Radiance
Because this balances PrimaryStat/PVPPower and add PVPResilience.

Customizations can be made using mixed gems (purple, green and orange gems) that have at least one of those stats. Like getting Perfect Vivid Alexandrite on yellow sockets to a more offensive play style.

I'm correct?
You posted the PvP Power formula, but unless I missed it, you didn't post the Resilience formula. I'm pretty sure the tooltip goes with

Damage Reduction% = 100*(0.4+(1-0.99^(resil/310)))
11/18/2012 12:59 AMPosted by Snorlaxative
Ok so whos gona summarize this for me in 3 sentences?

There is a very brief summary near the top of the guide that is 5 bullet points long, not sure how much more condensed I could make that.

So... thinking simple about gemming, the best to do is something like:
red: Bold Primordial Ruby, Delicate Primordial Ruby or Brilliant Primordial Ruby
blue: Stormy River's Heart
yellow: Mystic Sun's Radiance
Because this balances PrimaryStat/PVPPower and add PVPResilience.

Customizations can be made using mixed gems (purple, green and orange gems) that have at least one of those stats. Like getting Perfect Vivid Alexandrite on yellow sockets to a more offensive play style.

I'm correct?

I am sure you could gem that way and it would work fine, but I believe most people with go with purple hybrid PVP Power/Primary stat gems for the red slots, or just ignore the bonuses in some cases and go full PVP power in them. I am not familiar with the relative valuation of INT vs Power for warlocks or the socket bonuses you have, so it would probably be best to check what a top arena warlock is doing for some reference.

You posted the PvP Power formula, but unless I missed it, you didn't post the Resilience formula. I'm pretty sure the tooltip goes with

Damage Reduction% = 100*(0.4+(1-0.99^(resil/310)))

Yes I left that out of the original version, it will be added in with the first revision pass which I am working on now.
I used the formula: Damage Reduction % =(100-(100*(0.99^(resil rating/310))))+40 but what you put is mathematically the same thing written a different way.
11/16/2012 06:10 PMPosted by Eldacar
I haven't done calculations for the scaling and effect of these stats at lower levels so I cannot speak to the veracity of your rule of thumb. Do you have any math or other evidence to support your claims?


the math that you have done is enough to support my claim.

Simply put the diminishing returns on resilience rating is not intense enough to cancel out the exponential returns of damage reduction.


basically you are saying that resilience's benefit is more than linear, that's all the evidence i need, because the benefit of stamina is purely linear.

so if at one point, resilience is above stamina, then it will never dip below stamina after that point.
11/26/2012 06:35 AMPosted by Tacticss
I haven't done calculations for the scaling and effect of these stats at lower levels so I cannot speak to the veracity of your rule of thumb. Do you have any math or other evidence to support your claims?


the math that you have done is enough to support my claim.


The math I did was based on the scaling at level 90, the resilience to damage reduction conversion is different at other levels and thus the scaling may be different as well.
11/26/2012 07:07 AMPosted by Eldacar


the math that you have done is enough to support my claim.


The math I did was based on the scaling at level 90, the resilience to damage reduction conversion is different at other levels and thus the scaling may be different as well.


at lower levels, the only difference is how many resil points give you 1% damage reduction.

i am pretty sure that now with 40% base resil added in, resil follows a non-linear return (not just nonlinear, but something with an increasing derivative) at any level.

for example, look at this druid's resil percentage.
resil still works the same way it does where it's less beneficial after a certain point because it has DRs

here's some math i did in literally 30 seconds

your druid: 41.43% damage reduction, 780 resil = .053115% damage reduction per point of resilience

my priest: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Snipemasterx/advanced
36.54% damage reduction, 663 resil = .055113% damage reduction per point of resilience

my mage: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Anatomyxxmd/advanced
28.10% damage reduction, 481 resil = .058420% damage reduction per point of resilience

it doesn't take a genius to figure out from those numbers alone that resilience gets worse as the number gets higher, hence why stamina is better after a certain point because you'll effectively gain more survivability by having a good mix of the two rather than gemming purely in one or the other


it seems that you still have no idea how resilience works:

each point of damage reduction you get is better than the previous point. calculating the accumulated reduction per point of resil means absolutely nothing.

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