DW tanking - at least give more support then

Death Knight
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tweets from GC:

re-phraseed question - What is your plan for Dual wield DK tanking? Do you like it being sub par threat wise?
We consider Blood to be a 2H spec. If you can make something else work, cool, as long as it doesn't totally eclipse 2H.


me and i'm sure plenty others would not mind to make it work - as long as we get the necessary tools/support

while blood is modeled with 2H in mind - the example from frost can be applied over to make it dw-friendly as well

a modified version of Threat of Thassarian for blood would help alot

though i dont get the idea behind blood's fixation on 2H - so you guys have no problem stuffing 2H into frost, but expanding DW outside frost is something 'forbidden'?

it would seem like everytime whenever someone manage to make DW viable for other specs - u guys shut it down quickly

i honestly thought that with all the rework on talents and specialization - you guys have more than enough knobs and ways to allow DW-viablity across all specs, without the hassle of balancing all 3 specs together like they did with old design.

what's limiting you guys?
There is no reason to Dual Wield tank.

09/09/2012 06:49 PMPosted by Mythenà
allow DW-viablity across all specs


Sudden Doom and Scent of Blood only proc off main hand swings, meaning there is no benefit to dual wield.

If you want to dual wield tank, go get some souldrinkers and tank a HoT, but don't try and make this viable, THERE IS NO REASON TO DW TANK.

Why do you even want to dual wield? Because it looks cool?

When was the last time you saw a protection paladin, or warrior throw on a Gurthalak because it looks cool and procs tentacles. When was the last time you saw a bear druid ask if he could get a caster dagger and offhand so he could transmog them to look cool, and tank with them.

There is no reason to dual wield tank. It was around in wrath, and now its gone. Move on.
Here is another example, enhance shamans. Back in vanilla, 2 handed enhancement was a viable spec, albeit boring. You would cast earth shock, and rely on windfury procs and do massive burst.

Today, shamans dual wield fist weapons, axes and maces. However, it is possible for them to equip 2 handed maces, but if you ever saw one trying to roll on Ataraxis, and raid with it, they would be called a bad for purposefully limiting themselves for the sake of nolstagia.
Blizzard isn't going to do anything to support DW tanking because they

09/09/2012 06:49 PMPosted by Mythenà
consider Blood to be a 2H spec


YOU have to

09/09/2012 06:49 PMPosted by Mythenà
make something else work
Apparently, DW tanking is more than viable for Monks, if you want to give that a try.
I feel sorry for the dead horse.
Same reason DW UH doesn't work, 2H Prot doesn't work, 2H Fury doesn't work, etc.

Blizzard doesn't want it to balance those specs for that because they don't have to and it would be extra unnecessary work for something that is already perfectly fine. Why even add DW Blood in the first place?
I understand why players would ask for freedom of choice but I also understand why only supporting a variation with one of the specs. Players should almost be more interested in how Frost turns out since it actually allows 4 choices in a 3 tree class. Warriors instead have a tree that has two different versions of dual wield. The Devs are actually finding a way to make dual wield and 2 handed function together. I don't see them making unholy dual wield anyway since instead the damage is more about the pet and you generally would be losing pet and dot damage to be using 2 1-handers over a 2hander.
09/09/2012 07:40 PMPosted by Runeheal
There is no reason to Dual Wield tank.


there's plenty of reasons - one just deny admitting that we had such versatility, which is then sadly rid-of

i'm not saying that we should go back to the old '3 specs that can both tank and dps' - but expanding some options is not too much to ask.

we could go as far saying that making blood into tank spec or putting 2H into frost makes no reason as well - after all, frost was the tanking spec. hey, the presence itself says it all.

then again, things changed. hence they could be changed - again.

Sudden Doom and Scent of Blood only proc off main hand swings, meaning there is no benefit to dual wield.


an easy fix is to allow those talents to proc from both weapons during dual-wielding. there, solved.

not that its even hard to begin with - since it was functioned as that, intentional or not.

If you want to dual wield tank, go get some souldrinkers and tank a HoT, but don't try and make this viable, THERE IS NO REASON TO DW TANK.

Why do you even want to dual wield? Because it looks cool?


oh - maybe becoz i played a DW frost, and i'd prefer to be able to use my weapons for tanking as well? hey, runeforge on the fly? not a problem.

or maybe i just prefer to have more options how i can opt to play my toon - like i used to?

last i heard having more options is not a bad thing


When was the last time you saw a protection paladin, or warrior throw on a Gurthalak because it looks cool and procs tentacles. When was the last time you saw a bear druid ask if he could get a caster dagger and offhand so he could transmog them to look cool, and tank with them.

There is no reason to dual wield tank. It was around in wrath, and now its gone. Move on.


first of all - its not even about cool factor. though i admit it would look cool - but i just want having larger degree of freedom/choice.

i played a DW frost - like many others do.

last i checked, the 2H dps crowd is overflowing with ppl, each wanting a piece of their own. hell, we even have one 'greedy' fella that wants 2 of those - while 1H str crowd is .... numbered. in fact, i count only 2. so why not expand that?

i'm not asking to make DW and 2H to co-exist on each tree - we can just aptly start with blood. or just stay with blood and frost.

with the distinct specialization, as well as unique spells that only given to their own specs - shouldn't it be way easier to tune things now? at least u guys did that with soul reaper.

and yes - i did moved on. going 2H on blood tanking, running out on 2H Frost - even unholy just for the heck of it

conclusion? i liked neither of those options. i'm not being greedy - and i do acknowledge that they really go out on their way to make things viable for most ppl, but i end up feeling those are more of a 'do this chore to get my stuff done' than 'having fun while i'm doing my stuff'

reroll another class? sure - can i ask for a refund for my 2-3 years of investment when u morphed my fav class into something which i end up being told to 'please reroll if u dont like it'?
sudden doom and scent of blood were changed to proc only off of mh hits because they want those specs to dominantly use 2handers. you have the option to dw in both it will just be subpar to 2h. thats the price to pay for being a special snowflake

adding support for dw tanking outside of what is already in game is a waste of time when there are a multitude of other problems they could be fixing
Plus how many players would get tired of every DK going "NEED" every time a 1 hander or 2 hander drops that they can equip.

Raid Leader - "The Agi Polearm dropped"
Monk - "Need"
Warrior - "Need"
Feral - "Need"
Bear - "Need"
DK - "Need"
Raid Leader - "Damn you platers!"
War - "You mean this isn't vanilla?"
DK - "It's my 15 bucks"
Raid Leader - "You're both idiots!"

p.s.

You can have the freedom to not subscribe if you're truly that bothered by Blizzard not catering to every flight of fancy.
Blizzard isn't going to update/change a class/spec for one person, or for a very small portion of the DK community. If they did, they'd have to update every other class/spec to balance/to make those players happy too. Deal with it. 2h > DW.

09/10/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Mythenà
oh - maybe becoz i played a DW frost, and i'd prefer to be able to use my weapons for tanking as well? hey, runeforge on the fly? not a problem.


Because you totally want hit/haste/exp/crit when tanking. Only time you need hit/exp is when ur capping as a tank, like I do.

Also, like the post above said, there'd be the problem of DKs rolling on everything then. Pallys/warriors would complain even more if Blood DKs MS rolled on one hand tank weps.
I think a bit of the time the want for dw tanking also stems from greed. It's the thinking "I have to roll against all the rets, fury warriors, arms warriors & DK's to get their 2handers before I'd be able to get one" Meanwhile the competition for strength one handers

1. Possibly a shield tank (Not even a issue if off tank is a bear)
2. Single Minded Fury (Almost not used at all)
3. Other DW Frost DK's

So in the back of their greedy minds the overall pool of competition is smaller so of course they'd want to be a dw tank.

p.s.

A few months ago in a 25 man a fury warrior was talking to me about wanting to be smf. I asked him if it was more dps at the time. He didn't think so. All I could think was because there was a few TG Warriors and a ret that still need Gurth to and he only wanted to compete against me as a frost dk for weapons.
Do you even have a max level dk? From the looks of it you don't, ergo you don't even have endgame experience to justify the changes you're asking imo. Either way your asking for things that are just for personal preference. Adding too much variation, as crazy as it sounds, complicates the game and will just bring about balancing issues in the end.
09/10/2012 11:10 AMPosted by Ternau
Do you even have a max level dk? From the looks of it you don't, ergo you don't even have endgame experience to justify the changes you're asking imo. Either way your asking for things that are just for personal preference. Adding too much variation, as crazy as it sounds, complicates the game and will just bring about balancing issues in the end.


To be fair it's the pot calling the kettle black if you aren't posting on Tehillim@Moonrunner
Fact of the matter is he doesn't seem to have a max level dk. Which to me at least, hence the "imo", probably means he is basing all of this off of nostalgia for dw tanking in wotlk, and not realizing the implications it could have in the scheme of endgame. I get what he's asking and saying, sure it does sound kind of cool. Realistically, it's just more work for Blizzard when they most certainly have more pressing matters, basically all of the time to attend to.
Just teasing you for berating them for not appearing to have an 85 which you judge by what they post on when most of the time you post on lvl 1's or 2's and not your 85's. Seems somewhat hypocritical on your part. Also don't be mad for being called out on that fact. Not that it denounces what the other player does but you also shouldn't get a pass on the "Do as I say and not as I do."
Once again, I wasn't hiding that fact, since I have the extension too I noticed he doesn't have a level 85 dk, hence my post. I, and everyone else for that matter are allowed to post on whatever toon they see fit, I usually post on my dk but I decided hey level ones are fun yo. Again, hence why I asked if he had a level 85 since extensions/addons can have glitches and be wrong. If he does, it basically negates THAT part of my comment, you're still ignoring my main point.
Relax! I was teasing you for posting on a lvl 2 hunter. I never refuted the other point so you can stop that right now. You became defensive and argumentative over it. I'd suggest growing up as just an ironic twist on the lvl 2 thing. Heh. This is a game and there is no reason to be belligerent.
Can't convey tone through words, my posts don't seem defensive to me, I was just responding to your posts as the first one was unwarranted (maybe the first part of my second post seemed "belligerant" XD lol). The tone you are interpreting isn't what I intended, although I can see how one could think that. I can also say similar things about your posts.

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