Warlocks are demon hunters?

Story Forum
By the way demon hunter fans, here is a new demon hunter-centric item coming in Mists of Pandaria.

http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=126654

It's a brew you drink which gives you a red version of the Cursed Vision of Sargeras.

There's also the demon hunter's aspect coming in the newest trading card game collection, which let's you assume the form of a demon hunter. I am hoping this will be Illidan's updated model, but I am expecting it to be something like the demon hunter NPCs we see in game realistically. I just hope it's possible to enter combat while maintaining the form the item permits you.
No, they just know some of the demonic spells that Demon Hunters know. You wouldn't call a necromancer a Death Knight would you?
Sweet jeebus I gotta get me some of those.
09/13/2012 08:25 AMPosted by Talendras
Sweet jeebus I gotta get me some of those.
I'm going to try and have as much as I can on my warlock.

Playing a warlock while wearing the cursed vision, eeeeee.

And I just found out about these new hidden treasures in the world. I loved the easter egg system Rift used with artifacts, and MOP will now have something like this, with hidden loot in tree boles and under bushes and deep inside caves. With actual loot you'd want, like this cursed vision loot item, or BOAs.
How many here remember that Demon Hunters were given as the example of the first hero class? They were to be a specialized tree off the hunter base class we could spec into at level 40. Then, when that didn't make it into launch, it was to be a post level 60 thing.

That never happened, either.

How many also remember that the original Death Knights were exceedingly different from the DKs we saw created in Warcraft 3? In addition, THOSE DKs are different from the DKs the players become in Wrath. WC3 DKs have the option of being living beings that swore allegiance to the Lich King. Wrath DKs assume the hero's death and were created from a "mass produced" resurrection. They were mind controlled. Their DK-ness was against their will.

It's why Orbaz Bloodbane makes the comment he does in the starting area: "When I was given the gift, things were different." Death Knights, as a "class" have evolved over time to fit the ongoing lore. The latest iteration allows the players to be accepted heroes to both the Horde and the Alliance. Not necessarily trusted, but tolerated (as has been mentioned many times in this thread).

There's no reason that Demon Hunters couldn't be reshaped in a similar way.

Indeed, Richard Knaack's War of the Ancients trilogy broke Demon Hunter lore by making Illidan the first, and by allowing little to no room for others to be taught by him as is mentioned in other lore. We never even saw him fight and slay Azzinoth to obtain his glaives!

Demon Hunter lore is, unfortunately, scattered and broken in its current state. I've been researching and roleplaying it since launch, and I've been running a DH-centric RP guild on Earthen Ring for that same amount of time. It's not in a great state outside of some awesome fan lore.

What's my point? That it's ripe for the type of lore expansion a new hero class can bring.

For a few years I ran a Warcraft-centric lore blog called LoreCrafted. Yes, the site's still there, but it has a more expanded purpose now. However, after BlizzCon 2011, I wrote an article postulating how Blizz could bring Illidan back. I've linked it below for those curious:

http://anvil.lorecrafted.com/tiki-view_blog_post.php?postId=2

I believe that a story similar to the above could allow Blizzard to bring Illidan back as the leader of a group of player-character demon hunters. Their arc would be similar to that of the DKs in Wrath: mistrust and aversion give way to grudging acceptance.

It's not off the table just yet...
Tharion! you're an old face.

I didn't get into WOW until December of 2004, but I heard rumors about demon hunters being talked about before I crashed the party. I'd love to know more about this hunter spec you're talking about.

I know on the original box I purchased there appeared to be a player demon hunter with a party of other heroes and there was a little ad claiming hero classes were coming to the game soon. Back then by the way for all you not aware, people called hero classes those classes we wanted to see in the game which were inspired by the hero units of WC3.

It was not until WOTLK that Blizzard decided to officially state what the term hero class meant.

But yes, I used to think certain classes would be able to specialize as hero classes, I was looking forward to demon hunter, blade masters, and death knights, with hope for pandaren brew masters. I made Elrith here with the intention of exploring what kind of psychology it would take for someone to consider doing what demon hunters do. I surmised I would try to do everything in game as literally as I possibly could, deciding never to pretend I had been blinded until I somehow literally had an eye binding.
It took me nearly 4 years, and the story came together nicely I think, before I finally went through with the blinding.

If Blizzard would just put in some mundane elven warglaives, I could sleep better.
But I am still holding out for actual demon hunters. It's still very plausible, and it still seems like something Blizzard has an intention of doing. Warlocks and rogues are just a means to give demon hunter fans a high five over the years, but I do not think they are intended to fill that niche ultimately.

I'd give it two more expansions before I stop holding my breath. :P
09/11/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Athanasius
I hope you are right, and that someday in the future we get Demon Hunters. My point about Warlocks was their Metamorphosis form. It has pretty much everything WC3 Demon Hunters had when they were in that form: immolation aura, shooting green fel fire at the enemy. What do you make of the fact that the warlock Challenge set is an Illidan set?
Keep in mind that in WC3, All Death Knights had to go on was an aura, raising the dead, and deathcoil.

And blizzard managed to conjour Frost, Blood, and Unholy archtypes out of 3 abilites.

Pretty sure they can do similar with the Demon Hunters.
09/14/2012 12:41 AMPosted by Shimaula
I hope you are right, and that someday in the future we get Demon Hunters. My point about Warlocks was their Metamorphosis form. It has pretty much everything WC3 Demon Hunters had when they were in that form: immolation aura, shooting green fel fire at the enemy. What do you make of the fact that the warlock Challenge set is an Illidan set?
Keep in mind that in WC3, All Death Knights had to go on was an aura, raising the dead, and deathcoil.

And blizzard managed to conjour Frost, Blood, and Unholy archtypes out of 3 abilites.

Pretty sure they can do similar with the Demon Hunters.
Yes, this is very important to consider whenever the topic comes up about Demon Hunters not having enough to distinguish them from the other classes.

DKs had three talent trees fleshed out from abilities that were also mostly in game already.
,
09/15/2012 09:47 PMPosted by Callatham
Demon hunters are just crappy warlocks who keep trying to melee instead of using their spells.
Your mom.
09/15/2012 09:47 PMPosted by Callatham
Demon hunters are just crappy warlocks who keep trying to melee instead of using their spells.


And Warlocks are Mages who don't know how to use Frost spells.

Your point?
,
Keep in mind that in WC3, All Death Knights had to go on was an aura, raising the dead, and deathcoil.

And blizzard managed to conjour Frost, Blood, and Unholy archtypes out of 3 abilites.

Pretty sure they can do similar with the Demon Hunters.


The modern DK was conceived out of three possible class ideas: Death Knight, Necromancer, and Runemaster. You can see how all of those got folded into the one class.
While I'm all for Demon Hunters, I just don't see them making it as an in-game class.

The primary reason is a gameplay one: Blizzard is two for two on introducing new classes in the game that are primarily melee. Introducing one that, thematically, can only exist as a melee or ranged dps seems odd.

And yes, Demon Hunters were also a semi-ranged unit in WCIII. Their Mana Burn ability was a real hero-killer and their ability to do hit and run attacks was invaluable.

As for lore, I don't really view Blizzard's inclusion of Demon Hunter stuff in-game as a hint that the class is coming. If anything, I take it as a hint that Blizzard is resigned that it isn't coming, and so they are putting things in the game to make reference to them. Warlocks new Glyph, Bad lands/Felwood/Darkshore quests, etc.

They can bring Illidan back, yeah. Doesn't mean Illidan will start training new demon hunters again. Especially if they try and bring him back on the Alliance or something.
09/15/2012 09:47 PMPosted by Callatham
Demon hunters are just crappy warlocks who keep trying to melee instead of using their spells.

Regrettably, I have to agree with Callatham. I don't particularly like demon hunters and consider warlocks far more interesting. We should just get a lot more warlock lore, instead of diverting it with demon hunter irrelevancies.
While I'm all for Demon Hunters, I just don't see them making it as an in-game class.

The primary reason is a gameplay one: Blizzard is two for two on introducing new classes in the game that are primarily melee. Introducing one that, thematically, can only exist as a melee or ranged dps seems odd.

And yes, Demon Hunters were also a semi-ranged unit in WCIII. Their Mana Burn ability was a real hero-killer and their ability to do hit and run attacks was invaluable.

As for lore, I don't really view Blizzard's inclusion of Demon Hunter stuff in-game as a hint that the class is coming. If anything, I take it as a hint that Blizzard is resigned that it isn't coming, and so they are putting things in the game to make reference to them. Warlocks new Glyph, Bad lands/Felwood/Darkshore quests, etc.

They can bring Illidan back, yeah. Doesn't mean Illidan will start training new demon hunters again. Especially if they try and bring him back on the Alliance or something.


It feels as though it's in Blizzard's best interest to introduce Hero Classes that can be hybrids. It allows them to fill in the gaps in the role lineup a little more easily while still allowing people to opportunity to play how they wish to play.

Demon hunters could easily be 'evasion tanks,' which hasn't truly been explored in WoW prior to now. Add an extended metamorphosis ability to allow further tanking and a few anti-magic abiltiies in there, and Blizz could easily craft another class template around which to build the demon hunter.

That all said, I only HOPE to see DH's as a hero class some day. But I don't exactly expect it.

The expansions will play out as they play out.
It feels as though it's in Blizzard's best interest to introduce Hero Classes that can be hybrids. It allows them to fill in the gaps in the role lineup a little more easily while still allowing people to opportunity to play how they wish to play.

Demon hunters could easily be 'evasion tanks,' which hasn't truly been explored in WoW prior to now. Add an extended metamorphosis ability to allow further tanking and a few anti-magic abiltiies in there, and Blizz could easily craft another class template around which to build the demon hunter.

That all said, I only HOPE to see DH's as a hero class some day. But I don't exactly expect it.

The expansions will play out as they play out.


They could certainly set them up as evasion tanks, except there are a few problems with noting with that idea:

-It would give the game six tanks. Not a big deal, since there are way too many DPS specs anyways, but there's just only so many ways for Blizzard to design a tank. "Evasion tank" isn't very specific, especially now that tanking has once again been re-designed to require "active mitigation".

-Evasion was already put in the game as a Rogue ability. Yes, I know this is a minor and negligible reason, but it is one of the oldest defensive cooldowns in the game and it's meant to be a nod to WCIII's demon hunters.

-Just stating it again, every new class they bring into the game has thus far been melee. So if Demon Hunters are coming, it will probably be a long ways down the line because eventually people are going to want a new caster/ranged class.

-As a class, Demon Hunters are iconic in that they don't wear shirts. Instead, they have tattoos. It would be very strange to stroll down Orgrimmar and see Blood Elf Demon Hunters in full leather(or cloth?) garb.

-Thematically, every class represents an important aspect of the setting. Druids represent nature magic and a lot of the themes Night Elves brought into the franchise. Shamanism represents the elements and ancestral worship. Priests represent the Light/Shadow. Monks represent the disciplines created by the Pandaren, and so on and so forth. Demon Hunters would have to, then, share the same themes as Warlocks, kind of like how Paladins share the same themes as Priests. It would work, but Demon Hunters would have to be different somehow.

-Historically, Blizzard originally designed the classes with magic to have two to three elemental attributes(With Paladins being an exception since they could melee, and Blizzard had a very strange way to look at things back then). Druids were nature/arcane, Priests were Light/Shadow, etc. The primary reason for this was gameplay: If one spell school is locked out, you still have access to the others. But thematically? Do we really need a THIRD Shadow-themed class? I know it makes little difference now that spell resistance is gone, but it is kind of redundant all the same.


-Again, don't get me wrong. I'm all for Demon Hunters. However they just wouldn't work in WoW as they are. They'd have to be redesigned from the ground up to be something more than what they were in WCIII. They'd have to wear some kind of armor, they'd have to be able to do more than one role, and they'd have to have access to more weapons than just glaives. Not to forget everyone who plays the class would have to be ritualistically blinded, which kind of mucks up helm options.

And if Blizzard took away or changed all those things....would they really still be Demon Hunters?

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