With Open Arms: Arms PvP Guide 5.2 WIP

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can you add to the section for profession how to use your professions efficiently and what and how to do it. for example if you choose blacksmithing/jewlcrafting you need to socket your gloves and bracers at the blacksmith, and socket them with the epic jewlcrafter gems at the jewlcrafter etc. This information is underrated. Or if you choose enchanting you should get your rings enchanted , some people still have no idea about how to obtain these profession perks.
09/17/2012 06:17 AMPosted by Asdferty
So if you are by yourself, this glyph is amazing. If you are with the aforementioned shadow priest, it becomes a nuisance.

09/17/2012 06:17 AMPosted by Asdferty
5/10 when with other silence classes as you are just getting in their way.

Uhm... you being able to silence leaves the "aforementioned shadow priest" free to continue DPSing. It gives him that one extra GCD. Also your logic assumes that only one target would need silencing...

This glyph should be marked
Correct me if im wrong but mortal strike reduces healing by 25% not 10%, no?
You are correct, that is a typo! Mortal Strike will be changed to 25% - it was an oversight when I was thinking about the glyphs later haha!

As for the gag order, yes, while that is true, if I'm beating on a healer and want to pummel a heal, I'm now committed to putting silence on diminishing returns. So what could have been -
(example scenario)
4 second pummel - 4 second stun (shockwave) - 5 second silence (silence) - 3 second horrify
Total lockdown of 16 seconds

With Gag order becomes

4 second pummel - 4 second stun - 2.5 second silence - 3 second horrify - (if you blow heroic throw) .75 silence
Total lockdown of 14.25 seconds

This is why gag order can be bad. Even though you added two silences to a lockdown, you put extra diminishing returns before the silence came in. I know what you're thinking though - what if we started this whole thing with the priest silence?

The danger in that, and why it is best to start with a pummel is because if you move the pummel to the end of the string, there is a pretty darn good chance he will be using instant casts over hard casting heals when they come out of that. Due to this simple nature of using cooldowns/instant heals to get them out of danger when they come out, you've allowed them to survive.

So it is best to use the lockdown chains after the pummel, to make it that much more deadly. This is why I've ranked gag order lower that 10/10 etc, because even if you use pummel on cooldown, not even counting heroic throw, you will push silences off the table completely.
Michaelocios I tried to add some more info about where professions get their stuff. I didn't go too in depth, as this isn't a profession guide, but hopefully it is what you were looking for, and what a new warrior might need to put him/her in the right direction.
Thanks so much!
note, scaling wise pvp power might be better then strength.
In offense for sure. Power doesn't give you any defensive bonus though, which strength does. Maybe Power will win out clearly at 90, but time will tell. Until then, I will recommend the most balanced setup, and leave the min/maxing to those who are already comfortable with their teams and character setups.

If it gets to the point where it seems all warriors should be going for all PvP Power, or Resilience, or what not, I will definitely change it accordingly.
You don't give any numbers though. So you don't have anything backing up Strength > PvP Power > PvP Resilience > Critical Strike > Expertise > Mastery > Haste. So how are people supposed to know when pvp power overtakes strength? Is this you guessing or do you have something backing it up? Why should people trust what you say with nothing backing you? I like how you broke down talents and glyphs with which ones work in what situation. I completely disagree with you about glyph of gag order it is a must have in pvp.
Numbers are pretty darn hard to come by in PvP situations. This is a meta-game thing. When it gets to the point that your role as a warrior is always blow up an enemy as soon as possible (like on a TSG - Warrior, Deathknight, Holy Paladin team), PvP Power will probably win out. If you are ever being attacked though, and possibly a kill target, strength will be more useful if there is anything that melees you.

I can give you the reasons behind that priority, but as I said I will leave min-maxing to those who wish to do so. If you find you are never dying, and you want more damage? Take PvP Power. If you find you are ALWAYS the target, and keep on dying? Take PvP Resilience. If you aren't sure, and want to be BALANCED in offense and defense, take strength. Of course I would recommend the balanced option first, and let players choose the direction they like to move in.

Gag order is a 9/10 without another teammate that silences. That's better than anything save heroic leap. That would mean taking it is a great choice. Me personally, I don't use it. I still do very well in PvP. It is not 'must have', and it does have a chance to backfire on you. It is 'must have' if you are solo, and having trouble with casters perhaps. If I ran TSG with a deathknight, I would not take gag order. If the silence was only on heroic throw, that glyph would be 10/10. The fact is that it is uncontrollable that makes it volatile.
Basically for stats you are saying use common sense then? Doesn't sound very guide like. On gag order what if your teammate can't use his silence for whatever reason and you didn't take gag order. Lets also not forget that with how strong casters are chances are there will be more than one caster. Wouldn't it be nice if between you and you partner you coud lock them both down? Glyph of gag order and heroic leap are the strongest glyphs for pvp. There is no other glyph not to take over gag order so it is a must have
What do you mean doesn't sound very guide like? That is the definition of guide! This is not 'Arms Warrior PvP Laws 5.0.5'. It is a guide. It is there to help newer or returning players get a grip on what is important.

Once again, this is a guide, and not law. Gag order is not mandatory. Sure, if you are fighting caster heavy teams, it would be great to have gag order! It would also be great to have glyph of Mortal Strike while you are being focused, and hindering strikes to slow players down. The point is that it is a guide where you get information, then you translate that information into what works best for you.

If you went up against a triple dps team, you might not think gag order is mandatory - it wouldn't really help you at all. If there is a glyph that doesn't always help you, COULD potentially harm you, but also could be incredibly powerful - that glyph is gag order. Because of that, it is not mandatory.
Most classes use mana so there is a high chance it will always be useful. Here lets get on the same page. You never know what you are going up against in bg, arena, or rbg. Is there another glyph that can have the kind of impact gag order can? Also the scenario you said you could still use mortal strike as the third glyph. I get what you are saying but if you look at the other glyphs none have the impact heroic leap and gag order have so I see no reason not take them. My problem is picking out the third glyph.
You do know what you will be going up against. It tells you before the arena doors open now.

edit: With battleground targets you know what you will be up against in bgs as well, if that wasn't clear.
When you are waiting for the arena match to start are you able to change glyphs? Also I just thought about it in a bg you can check the board before it starts to see whats on the other team. You can change stuff at the start, but can you once the bg starts?
Can't do it once it starts, but yeah you can change specs and glyphs before the arena or bg starts in the waiting room. Using this information, for sure you can switch to gag order to counter a certain comp or caster heavy team. I just don't think it's mandatory because it isn't always helpful - take bull rush for example.

Bull rush is always useful, because you will be using charge against everyone. It may not have as much of an impact against caster teams, but it works against everyone. If you want to min-max and counter stuff well, like I said go for it! Gag order is super powerful, I just think that there are situations where it isn't as useful as others.

Heroic Leap is 'mandatory' because it increases damage mobility, and survivability. It works against everyone, and gives you a large edge. It is the only glyph in my opinion that will be used in every situation, and is the best in every situation.
4 second pummel - 4 second stun (shockwave) - 5 second silence (silence) - 3 second horrify
Total lockdown of 16 seconds

The problem with this is that it assumes that the healer's (who youre trying to "lock down") teammates are just gonna sit on their asses and say "herp i guess we shud just watch"

What if right after the shockwave, an incoming polymorph starts to be cast?
Or a fear? or an off heal since a lot of classes have them now a days..

Your logic, (and dare i say a lot of this guide) is pretty difficult to apply in a dynamic arena environment, as a lot of it would only be true in a perfect pvp situation where you completely out-skill your opponents.
Enraged Speed - This scales directly with your haste

Is this true? If it is, this glyph would make haste a lot more attractive for both specs of PvP.
09/20/2012 02:15 AMPosted by Kerex
Enraged Speed - This scales directly with your haste

Is this true? If it is, this glyph would make haste a lot more attractive for both specs of PvP.

Not quite, Enrage procs off of CS/MS crits which both have cooldowns. Sudden Death resets the CD on CS and is procced off white hits BUT the amount of haste needed to add just one extra attack a minute is so high that would hardly see a gain.

And keep in mind that Enrage procs off CS/MS CRITS and getting all that haste means it would use up just as much crit, so you would actually see LESS Enrages.

So yes it makes haste better but it does not make it "more attractive", it simply makes the haste already on PvP gear less bad.

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