Stone Bulwark Totem

Shaman
Any reason why mages can absorb so much with Ice Barrier on a 24 sec CD

but we're lucky to get 20k on a 1 min CD?
Mages are not a hybrid class and hence don't have a whole spec dedicated to healing
Do you also like the fact that it is dispellable or able to be stolen with spellsteal? I noticed searing flames buff can also be dispelled. Just some things I noticed that bugged me.

How about the fact that it is still tied to the stick causing you to lose the second small shield when you out range it or it is destroyed?
09/18/2012 05:26 PMPosted by Nazor
Mages are not a hybrid class and hence don't have a whole spec dedicated to healing


Whats that have to do with anything, its a survival cd. What survival CD. Which Shaman don't have access to many. On a 1 min CD.

Ice Barrier can absorb 50k+ damage, Sacrificial Pact can even absorb more. Barkskin is a 20% damage reduction and can be glyphed for 25% lower chance to be crit.

We're talking about a *talent* that absorbs ~15k damage on a min CD...
09/18/2012 07:17 PMPosted by Rakeem
We're talking about a *talent* that absorbs ~15k damage on a min CD...


That's odd, if all the damage ends up getting absorbed on mine it absorbs just under 60k >.>

Edit: Will give you that Ice Barrier is still markedly superior though.

Edit 2:
09/18/2012 07:17 PMPosted by Rakeem
Sacrificial Pact can even absorb more


Dark Bargain (from the same tier) has absorbed up to 500k damage on my lock before (and he even lived >.>)
Yes this talent is very under powered right now not because of the absorb, but because blizz nerfed the CD of it. It was 16k before but ok because of the lower CD it had. Now, it does not even come close to other absorbers. BUT THERE IS HOPE! If you get the talent that reduces the CD of a totem if its prematurely destroyed then the 1min CD can be shortened to as little as 45 sec! Which isn't much, and kinda sad we need two talents to make one even good but I'll take what I can get.

Just remember all you shaman out there. Anyone who throws shields up at us can have them easily purged now that we get x2 again :) I always feel warm inside when I take away a mages 50k shield in 1 global, its like a 50k crit.
Any reason why mages can absorb so much with Ice Barrier on a 24 sec CD

but we're lucky to get 20k on a 1 min CD?


Because your playing against a class that is vastly superior than this class. The only limitation of a mage is the skill of the player.

I've played a mage since Burning Crusades and based off the abilities and talent choices there is no reason for a mage to perform poorly in combat especially against a Shamen of any spec.
09/18/2012 07:17 PMPosted by Rakeem
Mages are not a hybrid class and hence don't have a whole spec dedicated to healing


Whats that have to do with anything, its a survival cd. What survival CD. Which Shaman don't have access to many. On a 1 min CD.

Ice Barrier can absorb 50k+ damage, Sacrificial Pact can even absorb more. Barkskin is a 20% damage reduction and can be glyphed for 25% lower chance to be crit.

We're talking about a *talent* that absorbs ~15k damage on a min CD...


It has everything to do with it. You cannot give (or compare) a class that can heal easily a survival cool down like Ice Barrier it would be beyond OP. Also you can purge it off them. The totem is incredibly crap and blizzard will see this when no one takes it over Astral Shift (which is very good). Make some constructive points regarding its relation to other level 15 talents and to the SHAMAN class, not cry that mage's have something better.
Astral shift only lasts 6 seconds and you can't use it while silenced, unlike Stone Bulwark.

My biggest beef with Stone Bulwark is how easily stomped it is (like all totems).
09/18/2012 11:34 PMPosted by Nazor
It has everything to do with it. You cannot give (or compare) a class that can heal easily a survival cool down like Ice Barrier it would be beyond OP. Also you can purge it off them. The totem is incredibly crap and blizzard will see this when no one takes it over Astral Shift (which is very good). Make some constructive points regarding its relation to other level 15 talents and to the SHAMAN class, not cry that mage's have something better.


Hun at this point channeled heals are a drawback, preventing damage is far superior than channeling a heal its more GCDs and leaves you open to lockout when you don't have spammable CC to protect yourself.

    Mages can heal with spell steal glyph, thats multiple benefits with one GCD. Removing buffs, gaining buffs, and healing a % of your life in one GCD.

    Where as your spending multiple GCDs for less benefit to do 1 thing.

    Cold Snap restores 30% of hp and resets multiple survival CDs, once again 1 GCD multiple benefits.

    Evocation restores mana and HP when glyphed once again Multiple benefits, 1 GCD.


Hybrids doing things less because they can channel heals is outdated like hybrid dps tax was.

Am I whining about mages? No I want us to be brought up to par in terms of GCD usage and survivability.

Mages can keep their toys, Why does Stone Bulwark Suck when every other absorb in the game is far superior, pure dps or not.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back in the day it was because shamans could heal without dropping forms like boomkin/shadow, now even those specs can heal in their respective forms without punishment while shaman lag behind in the survival CD department.

You don't even know how much begging and rioting it took for us to even get a CC when we were the only class without one.

I remember DoT shock on these forums as well as lvl 1 shaman toons making a trail of corpses from Valley of trails to Org on multiple servers....
relating mage(or other class skills) to stone bulwark is a non sequitur. Class skills are balanced within the context of the specific class.
The only reasonable statement you can make is that you don't like the skill within the shaman context.

Also assuming you are discussing this skill from an unspecified pvp perspective(labeling?). In that vein I can only remind you that they need to balance for pve also. In pve it's not a bad tool, and buffing it would make it OP honestly.
Any reason why mages can absorb so much with Ice Barrier on a 24 sec CD

but we're lucky to get 20k on a 1 min CD?


Because your playing against a class that is vastly superior than this class. The only limitation of a mage is the skill of the player.

I've played a mage since Burning Crusades and based off the abilities and talent choices there is no reason for a mage to perform poorly in combat especially against a Shamen of any spec.


QUOTED, FOR, TRUTH.


Because your playing against a class that is vastly superior than this class. The only limitation of a mage is the skill of the player.

I've played a mage since Burning Crusades and based off the abilities and talent choices there is no reason for a mage to perform poorly in combat especially against a Shamen of any spec.


QUOTED, FOR, TRUTH.


I wanted to quote this because I couldn't agree more but just to play devils advocate;

We have Ice Barrier on a 24sec cd 50k absorb vs SBT on a 1min cd 20ishk absorb,
the former can be purged(assuming it's the only purgable buff on the mage) but just as easily can our totem be stomped. The shield from SBT can't be taken off once it's on so that's definitely a plus and if it does go down before the timer you get some time off the cd if you glyph it. I like that I can use it when silenced but does that justify double the cooldown for half the effect?

I really hope that we get some more bang for our buck like was mentioned earlier and get more uses from a GCD. I feel like a step in the right direction would be to separate totems and give them their own GCD or at least lower the GCD of totems all together.

Also, Power Word: Shield is basically a 15sec cd for a shadow priest...did someone ask if it could get worse!? How can I do dps when I'm trying to purge all day long and then have no mana to attack?
wth

Shaman can heal themselves.

Mage cannot. Mage gets more damage mitigation.

I would take the ability to self heal, use a shield, and wear mail over that extra absorption on my mage anyday. Then you'd really see some op mage QQ
fyi the shield from SBT can be dispelled. Also assuming u are taking enough damage to almost immediately break the shield (and the totem doesn't get stomped) it will absorb around 70-80k damage.
just purge it it has a cool down u should be glyphing for purge imo so it peels off 2 buffs per purge. It's considered a magical effect so purge should knock it off and then they have 15 sec or more b4 they can get another one back up.
09/19/2012 12:08 AMPosted by Casius
Am I whining about mages?


Yes.
Here's how it boils down.

Ice Barrier is better than shaman defensive cooldowns because...

1) Enh has instant cast heals through MW, powerful heals when glyphed, and one very good defensive cooldown already. Plus they have access to the defensive cooldowns in Tier 1.

2) Ele has to actually cast their heals, so they do run the risk of interruption, but they also have higher baseline mitigation from physical damage than mages due to wearing mail and having a shield. Shields are a lot of passive mitigation. Plsu they have access to the defensive cooldowns in Tier 1.

3) Resto... surely you're not complaining about resto.
2) Ele has to actually cast their heals, so they do run the risk of interruption, but they also have higher baseline mitigation from physical damage than mages due to wearing mail and having a shield. Shields are a lot of passive mitigation. Plsu they have access to the defensive cooldowns in Tier 1.


So what if we are comparing to spell damage? Where is your higher armor then?
It's also very easy to gloss over the fact that Mages have access to their Armor spells too which, depending on the armor, can provide either passive magical or physical mitigation.

They also have very accessible snares and a few roots to help keep melee at bay and let's not forget the ridiculousness that is Blink, a 15s c/d stun break, root break, and gap opener.

The disparity only worsens at level 90, where the vast majority of PvP Mages will also have Incanter's Ward (another absorb on a 25s cooldown), and there will also be the new PvP set bonuses. One halves the cooldown of their level 87, damage mitigation, ability (Alter Time) and the other makes Counter Spell the best interrupt in the game.

Mages have a lot of mitigation in MoP, Shaman do not come anywhere close to that sort of survivability and the gap only becomes larger when you factor in control and escapes.

At the end of the day though even if Mages need to be toned down that's not really important. What is important is that Shaman need to be tuned up.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum