Ask a Feral PvP'er!

Druid
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10/07/2012 09:50 PMPosted by Dysheki
I should point out that "Bleed kiting" is more important than ever.


Very difficult against warriors because of Second Wind (Whenever you are below 35% health, you regenerate 3% health per second). Doesn't seem like much, but it is.


One mechanic that One class has does not make my post any less true. I understand how this mechanic works. In fact the rest of that post was aimed at warriors.
10/08/2012 04:45 AMPosted by Earthreaver


Very difficult against warriors because of Second Wind (Whenever you are below 35% health, you regenerate 3% health per second). Doesn't seem like much, but it is.


One mechanic that One class has does not make my post any less true. I understand how this mechanic works. In fact the rest of that post was aimed at warriors.


The guy was talking about warriors. You responded saying bleed kiting was important. The logical assumption is you're talking about bleed kiting in general with a focus on warriors being included in that group.

You could have easily responded to me saying: "I wasn't talking about warriors when bleed kiting. Sorry if you misunderstood my post, but I never clarified so I could see why you thought so."
You could have easily responded to me saying: "I wasn't talking about warriors when bleed kiting. Sorry if you misunderstood my post, but I never clarified so I could see why you thought so."



Ok ok lets keep the thread constructive and on track :P No need to derail because of a little mistunderstanding right everypony? Right! :D

What is everypone's thought on Force of Nature for feral? =3
10/08/2012 08:48 AMPosted by Nagoto
What is everypone's thought on Force of Nature for feral? =3


When I played with it, I felt that it was hard to get it to do what I want when I wanted it to. I didn't give it too much of a chance tho.

I actually want to take another look at that whole tier to see whats best right now. Does SotF help our sustained damage at all? I like incarnation, but I wonder if there is a better option.

Ive recently been dueling a skilled warrior friend of mine. He said "yeah I just knew to stun you into oblivion when you turn into a thundercat" So I feel like im getting CC'd more during my burst phase. Though maybe its because there is more CC, Maybe (prolly this) its because I am rusty from not doing serious arenas for a month.
10/08/2012 08:48 AMPosted by Nagoto
No need to derail because of a little mistunderstanding right everypony? Right! :D


I dont know why im being called a pony but ill straighten my act up! :P
Ive recently been dueling a skilled warrior friend of mine. He said "yeah I just knew to stun you into oblivion when you turn into a thundercat" So I feel like im getting CC'd more during my burst phase. Though maybe its because there is more CC, Maybe (prolly this) its because I am rusty from not doing serious arenas for a month.


This is 100% a common strat. Think about it this way, do you save your CC / defensives when that ret is just smacking you? Or when you see him blow wings / on-use? When he's doing 340394% more damage of course!

Same concept haha.

You really just need to get him right before second wind - with your trinket up and his trinket down and still have your offensive cds ready. Not really easy to do but that's the general goal!

10/08/2012 10:48 AMPosted by Earthreaver
No need to derail because of a little mistunderstanding right everypony? Right! :D


I dont know why im being called a pony but ill straighten my act up! :P


XD I swap between this and the mmo-champ forums through the work day. Plus reddit - dev art - skill-capped ect ect

TL:DR just a habit!
@ Dysheki
I apologize for being unclear and possibly leading to an unconstructive conversation. It was not my intention by any means. I am only here to Help/Learn as much as possible.. and have a little laugh here and there :D

My strat against warriors involes bleedkiting until low while keeping stuns off DR. Then trying to burst through second wind while keeping him stunned. It looks better on paper than in practice. Not only did thier damage and survivability go up but they arent as easy to kite. Im still trying to find other strats but I dont see many other options. It hurst to try and stand toe-to-toe with these guys.
This is 100% a common strat. Think about it this way, do you save your CC / defensives when that ret is just smacking you? Or when you see him blow wings / on-use? When he's doing 340394% more damage of course!

Same concept haha.

You really just need to get him right before second wind - with your trinket up and his trinket down and still have your offensive cds ready. Not really easy to do but that's the general goal!


Exactly! Incarnation is just code for golden kitty wings. How do you feel about that tier? I think this tier is the one Ive experimented with the least.

10/08/2012 11:07 AMPosted by Nagoto
TL:DR just a habit!


It all makes sense now. I never really got into MMO-champions forums. I guess they dont talk about pvp enough for me. But it reminds me. Skillcapped needs to make some feral vids!
10/08/2012 11:20 AMPosted by Earthreaver
Exactly! Incarnation is just code for golden kitty wings. How do you feel about that tier? I think this tier is the one Ive experimented with the least.


Only from beta experience (Need to get some 3s going later this week when I'm less busy with slaying dargons) but Incanation is still a great CD in 3s. Chances are when you're popping zerk/inc your partner should be popping their major CDs too, looking for a survival CD usage or a kill.

For comps with more sustained damage (like if you were to play Feral !@# for example) SotF is great. I used it in BGs a bit the other day while I had a guild group and pocket healer and it makes swapping targets that much easier of of a roar on an escaped enemy.

Treants while decent are hard as hell to control as you've said; half the time they don't stun what I want, even if I FFF the target I want them to stun to make it "look like" I'm attacking that target. Their damage is acceptable for a 1 minute CD but I think they take the last slot for most situations.
@Kals Makes sense to me!
Long weekend of gearing up! Monday is here and I’m back on the boards.

Anyone else having trouble with warriors? These seem to be my achilles heel now. Ive never had trouble before. The can seem to come back from a quarter life globally stun me into the ground. In cat form I just get pummeled, bear delays the death.Im asking for advice, ideas... yes i rot and kite and heal, ect... Ill soothe when i can.


Yes. They have the ability to pretty much “global” you in the new adapted sense of killing you in a Shockwave. You have to save Barkskin at all costs for their burst. You cannot trinket the Intimidating Shout as having a trinket up for the stun will be the difference between life and death. A lot of Warriors will try to bait your trinket with that fear, don’t fall for it.

10/07/2012 05:43 PMPosted by Earthreaver
If you are having problems with warriors it might not be just you. They are a lil OP atm. It doesnt matter how much I bleed kite something if it hits me for 100K + when it touches me in 1 global its hard to put bleeds up without splatting. Not to mention if a warrior sneezes you get stunned. Its doable but man those guys hit like trucks.


I have noticed that full Dreadful gear has greatly helped me with the Warrior burst problem. I can survive a full stun burst if it’s only a Warrior on me at this point. Of course I’ll do my best to keep a trinket up to get out of that but my innate gear is really starting to show it’s usefulness.

10/07/2012 09:50 PMPosted by Dysheki
Very difficult against warriors because of Second Wind (Whenever you are below 35% health, you regenerate 3% health per second). Doesn't seem like much, but it is.


Has anyone else noticed that a stunned Warrior does not regenerate HP below 35% with Second Wind? I like to either face tank with my 100k-200k Healing Touches or employ a bleed-kite strategy to wear Warriors down to that 40% mark.

Once I have them there I try to bait a trinket with a clone and pretend to run away. Sitting in a Clone while a Druid runs away is like crack for trinket baiting. If I don’t score the trinket, I at least get a reset / Ravage out of it if not full reset pending Rend timer. If I do score it, that’s when you pull out either Bash or Maim and burn CDs to finish the job.

Save some sort of burst CD for 35% to death. If they burn Shield Wall, go into Defensive Stance and equip a Sword and Board, it may be time to slow play it until Shield Wall is gone.
What are our desired stats now. Still mastery,crit and hit for pvp. Pvp power won't really start coming into play until T2 gear or next season I believe. Desired mastery %Crit %Hit will always be 5%How effective is expertise going to be? Considering we are a attack from behind class. I assume not too important?


I’m currently going with the following priority; Agility > Mastery > Hit (to cap) > Critical Strike > Haste. PvP Power is amazing. I don’t go completely all out (yet), but I do gem with full hybid gems, see my Armory for details.

10/08/2012 04:29 AMPosted by Tokiwa
I thought cap was 6% ? Idk. Also I could be very wrong, but I think its more like Mastery> Agi> crit after hit/exp caps


I don’t care for Expertise at all in my PvP build. I reach the hit cap of 3% and call it good there.

10/08/2012 08:48 AMPosted by Nagoto
What is everypone's thought on Force of Nature for feral? =


The Trees die well before I can do anything with them. Stun DRs are insanely difficulty to manage with them around. Overall, I dislike them as Feral. Far more damage output from SoTF or Incarnation.

When I played with it, I felt that it was hard to get it to do what I want when I wanted it to. I didn't give it too much of a chance tho. I actually want to take another look at that whole tier to see whats best right now. Does SotF help our sustained damage at all? I like incarnation, but I wonder if there is a better option. Ive recently been dueling a skilled warrior friend of mine. He said "yeah I just knew to stun you into oblivion when you turn into a thundercat" So I feel like im getting CC'd more during my burst phase. Though maybe its because there is more CC, Maybe (prolly this) its because I am rusty from not doing serious arenas for a month.


You’re right about more CC in the game. Everyone has something and when you gain that armor and turn red (pending trinket) you are a huge target for the CC. I’ve got into greater detail as to when and how to use your burst in previous posts.

I will say you can try to burn Incarnation without Berserk and friends to draw some CC DRs from your enemies. They see the armor and get worried and start popping Defensive abilities. Then, when they fall off you can crank it up with everything minus Incarnation. It may seem like a waste of a CD but the strategy could have a place.

10/08/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Earthreaver
My strat against warriors involes bleedkiting until low while keeping stuns off DR. Then trying to burst through second wind while keeping him stunned. It looks better on paper than in practice. Not only did thier damage and survivability go up but they arent as easy to kite. Im still trying to find other strats but I dont see many other options. It hurst to try and stand toe-to-toe with these guys.


Everything here is what I’m currently up too. I do find with my recent gear upgrades that toe-to-toe encounters with Warriors are becoming easier. You will still find that one that will knock your socks off no matter what you do though. Just comes with the territory at the moment.

10/08/2012 11:20 AMPosted by Earthreaver
Exactly! Incarnation is just code for golden kitty wings. How do you feel about that tier? I think this tier is the one Ive experimented with the least.


After playing some Arena this last weekend I’m considering dropping Incarnation for SoTF. More to come with this…

Only from beta experience (Need to get some 3s going later this week when I'm less busy with slaying dargons) but Incanation is still a great CD in 3s. Chances are when you're popping zerk/inc your partner should be popping their major CDs too, looking for a survival CD usage or a kill. For comps with more sustained damage (like if you were to play Feral !@# for example) SotF is great. I used it in BGs a bit the other day while I had a guild group and pocket healer and it makes swapping targets that much easier of of a roar on an escaped enemy. Treants while decent are hard as hell to control as you've said; half the time they don't stun what I want, even if I FFF the target I want them to stun to make it "look like" I'm attacking that target. Their damage is acceptable for a 1 minute CD but I think they take the last slot for most situations.


That all sounds pretty good to me.
You’re right about more CC in the game. Everyone has something and when you gain that armor and turn red (pending trinket) you are a huge target for the CC. I’ve got into greater detail as to when and how to use your burst in previous posts.

I will say you can try to burn Incarnation without Berserk and friends to draw some CC DRs from your enemies. They see the armor and get worried and start popping Defensive abilities. Then, when they fall off you can crank it up with everything minus Incarnation. It may seem like a waste of a CD but the strategy could have a place.


I like that strat. I think ill try it.

Im convinced my problem is that I went from FLS/Junglecleave to Kittycleave. Im use to multiple strong CC chains while wearing a team down. Not that those dont have a place in kittycleave. But its very different and... I cant find the words for it atm. (I hope you get where im comming from) I need to L2P
Im convinced my problem is that I went from FLS/Junglecleave to Kittycleave. Im use to multiple strong CC chains while wearing a team down. Not that those dont have a place in kittycleave. But its very different and... I cant find the words for it atm. (I hope you get where im comming from) I need to L2P


I had the same issue swaping from jungle to ebola.

You just need to understand the difference in mind set. You're not trying to line up those killer 35-45+ second long CC chains. You're there to pick the squishiest target and train the living piss out of it till either A. It dies, or B.The target or the healer uses some or all of their defensives / trinkets. Then you just hard swap.

I was amazed when we hit a wall around 2.1k mmr last season as kitty cleave - we were always trying to think ahead, focus charging -> Focus Skull bash -> rebuke ect.

Finnaly my warrior was like "You know what? #$@% it. TRAIN THE PRIEST DEAD" and thats how we killed a 2300 pmr :D
10/08/2012 01:38 PMPosted by Nagoto
"You know what? #$@% it. TRAIN THE PRIEST DEAD"


I swear to the wow gods that my warrior said the same damn thing the other night.

Were running with a Rshammy instead of a pally. It has seemed to work better imo. Mobility isnt an issue and its better against casters. Ill learn to think more like a warrior.
Were running with a Rshammy instead of a pally. It has seemed to work better imo. Mobility isnt an issue and its better against casters. Ill learn to think more like a warrior.


Kill the priest, kill the priest, kill the priest priest priest. kill the priest, kill the priest, kill the priest priest priest.

*Hums*
10/08/2012 10:46 AMPosted by Earthreaver
What is everypone's thought on Force of Nature for feral? =3


When I played with it, I felt that it was hard to get it to do what I want when I wanted it to. I didn't give it too much of a chance tho.

I actually want to take another look at that whole tier to see whats best right now. Does SotF help our sustained damage at all? I like incarnation, but I wonder if there is a better option.

Ive recently been dueling a skilled warrior friend of mine. He said "yeah I just knew to stun you into oblivion when you turn into a thundercat" So I feel like im getting CC'd more during my burst phase. Though maybe its because there is more CC, Maybe (prolly this) its because I am rusty from not doing serious arenas for a month.


Ive recently been dueling a skilled warrior friend of mine. He said "yeah I just knew to stun you into oblivion when you turn into a thundercat" So I feel like im getting CC'd more during my burst phase. Though maybe its because there is more CC, Maybe (prolly this) its because I am rusty from not doing serious arenas for a month.


This is 100% a common strat. Think about it this way, do you save your CC / defensives when that ret is just smacking you? Or when you see him blow wings / on-use? When he's doing 340394% more damage of course!

Same concept haha.

You really just need to get him right before second wind - with your trinket up and his trinket down and still have your offensive cds ready. Not really easy to do but that's the general goal!



I dont know why im being called a pony but ill straighten my act up! :P


XD I swap between this and the mmo-champ forums through the work day. Plus reddit - dev art - skill-capped ect ect

TL:DR just a habit!


I'm not a hardcore pvper, but I do enjoy some metagames.
One of the reoccurring gripes about cata feral in the feral overview podcast was the lack of a burst cd on a lower cooldown (like 1min) to help force trinkets/defensive cooldowns.
Would it be viable to blow Incarnation by itself as a massive tell in expectation of getting them to waste cooldowns... while holding onto TF/Berserk/NV for your "real" burst phase?
10/08/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Paulbathehut
Would it be viable to blow Incarnation by itself as a massive tell in expectation of getting them to waste cooldowns... while holding onto TF/Berserk/NV for your "real" burst phase?


That is precisely what I suggested earlier in one of my multi-quote responses. : )

I think it could work to trick people fairly well if timed correctly.

(Savage Roar is always assumed to be active so I don’t have to talk about weaving it in the mix.)
I picture the following setup…
Wearing a target down into execute range utilizing stuns/bleeds/direct damage and pooling energy to cap. Use either NS or a PS Proc (if you’re lucky to have one active at this time) to trigger DoC buffed damage. Pop Incarnation, dump energy with Ravage x 2, burn Tiger’s Fury and exhaust the remainder of your Energy with Ravages.

I think the damage from Ravage spam with Incarnation alone will be enough to spook someone into going defensive. If they do, you’ll have plenty of time to allow TF to cool down while you are waiting out defensives and winding up for your real burst. If not, you still have a few bursty CDs on tap to move forward with.

Part of my game plan for burst is to pool, Incarnation, dump energy and then pop TF/Zerk/Etc to maximize the output of my burst window. I noticed that quite often as soon as Incarnation was popped I’d pull all kinds of CDs from various targets. Makes sense to leverage this to our advantage.
10/08/2012 02:24 PMPosted by Nagoto
Kill the priest, kill the priest, kill the priest priest priest. kill the priest, kill the priest, kill the priest priest priest.


I kid you not, I was doing 5's and my warr friend started saying this and singing. I we were goofing off with Resto, Ele, Arms, Rogue, Boom. We won 5 games straight before I had to bounce to work, but this made me laugh seeing it on a forum haha.

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