MoP PvE Combat Guide

Rogue
@Aeriwen: Based on shadowcraft it is clearly worth it if there is at least one ofther person who benefits in part . The personal dps loss of not having the glyph is about 3% at the cost of .8 energy per second. Approximating that energy loss by reducing haste a rogue loses about 3.75% dps to maintain WA. So as long as there is someone else in the raid who gains an amount equivalent to .75% of the rogues dps then it is worth putting up.

@All: The EA glyph recommendation was based on the lack of other compelling options. Only the feint glyph is broadly useful for raiding and feint is no where near as important an ability in MoP as it was in cata. I will edit the post to recommend the feint glyph as well as EA to reflect the variety of broadly useful glyphs.
@Aeriwen: Based on shadowcraft it is clearly worth it if there is at least one ofther person who benefits in part . The personal dps loss of not having the glyph is about 3% at the cost of .8 energy per second. Approximating that energy loss by reducing haste a rogue loses about 3.75% dps to maintain WA. So as long as there is someone else in the raid who gains an amount equivalent to .75% of the rogues dps then it is worth putting up.


First, I hope that is a typo, and second, you mean that someone would need to do that much in physical damage, which is unlikely for the physical classes that don't have EA.

I could be wrong, but I think a large part of enhancement and DK damage is non-physical...
So wait....

We gem for pure haste?

We don't gem for AGI anymore?

Or did they remove pure AGI gems?
Pure agility gems are still there. It's just that MoP gems with secondary stats on them now have twice as much of those stats as Cata gems did, which makes the "which should I use?" question a lot more interesting. Stat weights were literally just published on EJ a few hours ago, so the number-crunching on which specific gems are worth using in which situations is likely already underway.
Thanks for responses on expose armor glyph.
@Aeriwan:
Quickly estimating from simcraft. Frost dks do about 30% physical damage, unholy about 50%. Ret about 30%, WW monk 85%, Enhance about 20%. If we estimate based on combat which loses about 3% dps at about 80% physical damage just about any of those classes should do enough damage to cover the dps loss of the rogue.

@Ixidane:
After a fair amount of experimentation with shadowcraft I haven't seen the ep value of agi at more then twice the ep value of haste, generally agi comes in between 2.6 and 2.8 and haste at 1.5 to 1.7. Even accounting for +/-.1 ep error that Pins estimated in another thread its unlikely the ep of agi will be twice the ep of haste so pure haste gems will likely be your strongest gem.
What would be the ideal opener for Combat? Ambush or Garrote?
Thoughts on sub? Any plans for future guide? Great info by the way on combat. Thanks
09/28/2012 06:59 PMPosted by Zhon
What would be the ideal opener for Combat? Ambush or Garrote?


Ambush.
Good looking guide. Request sticky for this!

Its sad that other "elitest" sites take months to put simple guides together.
09/28/2012 06:59 PMPosted by Zhon
What would be the ideal opener for Combat? Ambush or Garrote?

Sinister Strike according to shadowcraft although its a reasonably close call. If you want to get fancy the answer is probably Ambush during deep insight and sinister strike the rest of the time.
Great guide, I'll be checking back to it

... Now someone make the RNG gods drop trinkets for me
Thank you for doing this.
So Eviscerate and Rupture are about the same optimal dmg output, yes?
Great guide, requested sticky!
10/10/2012 09:05 PMPosted by Xejvluqstzyr
So Eviscerate and Rupture are about the same optimal dmg output, yes?

I'm not sure the math on this is final, and the answer may change with gear (and certainly changes depending on which state of Insight you're in). Last I read, though, a 5-point Rupture did less pure damage than Eviscerate -- but, because it costs less energy than Eviscerate, actually works out to slightly more damage overall. Which is why Rupture weaving is generally recommended at this point.

Again, though, the impact on DPS won't be significant. It may not even be noticeable. And on cleave fights it's not recommended at all, since Rupture damage isn't copied by Blade Flurry.
10/11/2012 09:31 AMPosted by Rfeann
the answer may change with gear (and certainly changes depending on which state of Insight you're in)
Insight has no bearing on the answer. Rupture's damage is based on what insight you are at when you apply it. It does not update dynamically as your insight changes. This means that at any time when you are deciding between rupture and evisc you are picking between a 10% boosted rupture or a 10% boosted evisc, or a 30% rupture vs a 30% evisc, etc. They both get the same benefit now, so it just matters whether rupture or evisc is better at that time.

The only real factors that affect which you use are:
1) are you capping or not
2) are you cleaving or not
3) the duration of rupture in regards to target life, or phases/debuffs that cause the target to take increased damage (or phases/buffs that reduce target damage).

And on the cleaving condition CT basically takes rupture's spot for competing with evisc. (I think they've changed it so that the initial hit of CT is no longer copied by blade flurry, so evisc probably beats it out on 2 targets, but 3 targets should still put CT ahead, depending on if they live long enough for the bleed to do most of its damage).
10/11/2012 09:58 AMPosted by Pancakê
Insight has no bearing on the answer. Rupture's damage is based on what insight you are at when you apply it. It does not update dynamically as your insight changes. This means that at any time when you are deciding between rupture and evisc you are picking between a 10% boosted rupture or a 10% boosted evisc, or a 30% rupture vs a 30% evisc, etc. They both get the same benefit now, so it just matters whether rupture or evisc is better at that time.

I sit corrected, thanks.

Fiery hasn't posted in this forum in more than a week, though he's still active in the D&R forum (or, well, the D&R&S forum, now). Thinking of derailing a thread in there to harass him about whether he plans to keep this guide updated. :)
Bump to first page so more people can read
I have been using this guide the past week now. I just wanted to post in here to tell you thanks for all your hard work in making this!

Rogue life!

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