Ability and macro annoyance

Rogue
So, stuff changed with 5.0 with our 5 "main" abilities, based on spec.
Mutilate, Dispatch, Sinister Strike, Revealing Strike, Backstab and Hemorrhage.

Mutilate, Sinsiter Strike and Backstab are our main attacks.
Dispatch, Revealing Strike and Hemorrhage are our secondary main attacks.

The problem comes where Sinister Strike turns into Dispatch or Backstab.
Our main attack for one spec, turns into our secondary main attack in the other two specs.
Our main finisher change (Eviscerate into Envenom for assassination) works perfectly.

#showtooltip
/cast Eviscerate

The above can be a single macro (with more complicated bits in it) for all three specs as the same keybind without any issues.


#showtooltip
/cast Sinister Strike

The above here, works fine for combat
When you go Subtley, it becomes Hemorrhage, which you only use every 24 seconds (or when you can't be behind something) and don't really want as your "main" attack keybind.
When you go Assassinatoin, it becomes Dispatch, which you only use when Blindside procs, or when the target is below 35% health. You also don't really want this as your "main" attack keybind.

The way the 6 abilities should have been done is, taking Combat as the baseline:
Sinister Strike becomes Backstab or Mutilate.
Revealing Strike becomes Hemorrhage or Dispatch.

As it currently is, you need a macro for Sinister Strike and a macro for Mutilate/Backstab. (And if you use a macro for RvS, Hemo or Dispatch, you need one for them). So, that's 3 macros to do the job of two.
Well lets think about this for a second from a leveling standpoint:
Sinister Strike does not require daggers and it is your cp builder before you spec into anything.

Mutilate requires daggers, therefore if you weren't using a dagger then guess what? You can't generate cp until you go and find a dagger at lvl 10 (possibly 2) in which time you basically can't attack anything unless you can kill it with JUST auto-attacks.

Sub has the same problem, though not as severe.
Revealing Strike becomes Hemorrhage or Dispatch.

As it currently is, you need a macro for Sinister Strike and a macro for Mutilate/Backstab. (And if you use a macro for RvS, Hemo or Dispatch, you need one for them). So, that's 3 macros to do the job of two.
Revealing Strike doesn't become anything because it's not a baseline ability. They can't tie Revealing/Hemo/Dispatch together with the "this ability replaces that ability" mechanic because you can't replace something that wasn't there to start with.

So even if they did change SS to be replaced by Mut and BS, you'd still "need" 4 macros, not 2 (and currently I guess you "need" 5 macros).

And further, you're assuming that you "need" macros for all of these abilities AND you assume that the macro you use for your main or secondary attack for one spec does all the same other stuff as you'd want for your main/secondary attack for the other specs. Which is quite a lot of assuming to be doing.

First of all, something to keep in mind is that /startattack is a thing of the past. It's not necessary and doing it does nothing but take up extra space. They changed attack abilities to do this for us even if the ability fails for some reason or another. This means that we no longer have an automatic need to make a macro for all of our abilities just to do something that they should have been doing automatically (because now they do do it automatically). You only need macros for abilities if you want them to do more stuff or use conditionals etc.

Which means that more often than not, if you do use a macro for one of these abilities it's probably for a more involved and spec-related reason. Such as maybe a macro that chooses between Backstab and Ambush based on stance. This might be good for Sub, but that doesn't mean that Assassination is necessarily going to want a Mut/Ambush macro as well. Or maybe you want to macro an on-use trinket into SS for maximum uptime, while a Sub or Assassin rogue may prefer to have their trinkets macrod into SD or Vendetta instead (since restless blades makes it so that combat's cds aren't always the same length it's not always efficient to macro them to trinkets or other abilities that are always the same length cd). Or maybe you have a macro that uses a utility ability instead of your main ability when using a modifier key, that may be useful for your pvp spec but not as useful for your pve spec.
09/24/2012 10:39 AMPosted by Pancakê
First of all, something to keep in mind is that /startattack is a thing of the past. It's not necessary and doing it does nothing but take up extra space. They changed attack abilities to do this for us even if the ability fails for some reason or another.

I haven't really troubleshoot..ed.. this yet, so this may well be an obvious oversight on my part, but I have not been autoattacking new targets automagically. If I murder a target, and hit Mutilate, but have less than 55 energy, a nearby enemy *does* get targeted, but I don't begin autoattacking. I stand there like a stupidface.
I'm using a shift-modify macro that lets me use Mutilate (normal press) or Dispatch (shift-press), so maybe there's something about my setup that messes things up. I think it's a straightforward shift modifier.
09/24/2012 10:55 AMPosted by Rfeann
First of all, something to keep in mind is that /startattack is a thing of the past. It's not necessary and doing it does nothing but take up extra space. They changed attack abilities to do this for us even if the ability fails for some reason or another.

I haven't really troubleshoot..ed.. this yet, so this may well be an obvious oversight on my part, but I have not been autoattacking new targets automagically. If I murder a target, and hit Mutilate, but have less than 55 energy, a nearby enemy *does* get targeted, but I don't begin autoattacking. I stand there like a stupidface.
I'm using a shift-modify macro that lets me use Mutilate (normal press) or Dispatch (shift-press), so maybe there's something about my setup that messes things up. I think it's a straightforward shift modifier.
That is strange. It's supposed to have been changed. It may be that they've overlooked some abilities, or there's something else going on causing it.

I got nothing else to do today, maybe I'll play around and see if I can reproduce this.
I hope I'm not wasting your time. Like I said, I did nothing at all to troubleshoot yet; for all I know I may have put something dumb in the macro that causes an all-stop or something if an ability is unavailable.
Mutilate and Backstab still don't /startattack.
Curses! Foiled again by those meddling developers!
Yeah, I posted a thread a few days back about this topic.

It was met with relative silence. I was concerned about the confusion that having sinister strike and mutilate would give. Worse case is that new rogues have to buy some daggers from the vendor. They are only level 10 after all, its not a big deal. They likely have mostly white gear.
Yeah, I did play around with that today, and I also confirm that neither Mutilate or Envenom were turning auto-attack on when you don't have enough energy (dispatch wasn't turning it on when not proc'd either, but that may not be the same bug, and it's damn near impossible to get your energy that low, make sure you've stopped auto-attacking, and then hit dispatch during a proc before you get enough energy...even while naked).

I tested combat and SS, RvS and Evisc all trigger auto-attack when not having enough energy. I was too lazy to check Sub abilities.

So I guess I will addendum my earlier point: It *should* no longer be necessary to macro /startattack into our attack abilities as they are supposed to do that automatically even when they fail. Some abilities are apparently bugged and not working yet, but they *should* be fixed at some point.
Well lets think about this for a second from a leveling standpoint:
Sinister Strike does not require daggers and it is your cp builder before you spec into anything.

Mutilate requires daggers, therefore if you weren't using a dagger then guess what? You can't generate cp until you go and find a dagger at lvl 10 (possibly 2) in which time you basically can't attack anything unless you can kill it with JUST auto-attacks.

Sub has the same problem, though not as severe.


Sinister Strike doesn't exist for Assassination and you wouldn't pick assassination if you didn't have daggers. And, if you did, you wouldn't be able to do anything anyway, because of the first sentence.

Revealing Strike becomes Hemorrhage or Dispatch.

As it currently is, you need a macro for Sinister Strike and a macro for Mutilate/Backstab. (And if you use a macro for RvS, Hemo or Dispatch, you need one for them). So, that's 3 macros to do the job of two.
Revealing Strike doesn't become anything because it's not a baseline ability. They can't tie Revealing/Hemo/Dispatch together with the "this ability replaces that ability" mechanic because you can't replace something that wasn't there to start with.

They could do something like they did with Mage Bomb for Mages with Tier 5 (I believe) talents. The spell you unlock at that level, is called Mage Bomb and changes to which of the three you pick. So, something could be done that works with the same concept for RvS, Hemo and Dispatch.

So even if they did change SS to be replaced by Mut and BS, you'd still "need" 4 macros, not 2 (and currently I guess you "need" 5 macros).

And further, you're assuming that you "need" macros for all of these abilities AND you assume that the macro you use for your main or secondary attack for one spec does all the same other stuff as you'd want for your main/secondary attack for the other specs. Which is quite a lot of assuming to be doing.

Yeah, the macro is the same, minus the main ability, for all three specs.
#showtooltip Mutilate
/use 10
/cancelaura Levitate
/cancelaura Hand of Protection
/targetenemy [noharm][dead]
/startattack [harm]
/cast Mutilate
/stopmacro [nocombat]
/use 10
-/use 13
-/use 14



First of all, something to keep in mind is that /startattack is a thing of the past. ....

and the rest, has already been stated that it doesn't work right.
Well lets think about this for a second from a leveling standpoint:
Sinister Strike does not require daggers and it is your cp builder before you spec into anything.

Mutilate requires daggers, therefore if you weren't using a dagger then guess what? You can't generate cp until you go and find a dagger at lvl 10 (possibly 2) in which time you basically can't attack anything unless you can kill it with JUST auto-attacks.

Sub has the same problem, though not as severe.


Sinister Strike doesn't exist for Assassination and you wouldn't pick assassination if you didn't have daggers. And, if you did, you wouldn't be able to do anything anyway, because of the first sentence.
Unless you're a new player that doesn't know that assassination requires daggers. Thus the entire point of what I was saying.
They should just do what they did with the "Mage Bomb" ability. You put Mage Bomb on your bars and whatever you spec into it will change according to that, and you can keep the same bind.

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