Boomkin DPS????

Druid
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09/28/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Darkstryde
nobody enjoys being bottom of the DPS chart

There's nothing wrong with being bottom of the DPS chart (imo) if the difference in numbers between top and bottom is small. Skill level matters at that point. You might be so good you rise to the top, and others less skilled fall below you.

With that said, when there is a massive difference between the top and bottom, it's not fun being at the bottom. Even if an idiot is playing the #1 DPS spec and you are amazing at the bottom spec, the two of you might meet in the middle on the meters. That's not a good feeling.
There's nothing wrong with being bottom of the DPS chart (imo) if the difference in numbers between top and bottom is small. Skill level matters at that point. You might be so good you rise to the top, and others less skilled fall below you.


Very true. Are the differences usually pretty small? I haven't been around long enough and done enough raiding to have a clue.
From my testing, AOE is very very bad...and the change to mushroom that makes them unable to be cast on some objects, along with the huge damage nerf they took, is pretty hard to deal with.

Many classes have fire and forget or mobile aoe while ours are static, so casting hurricane/shrooms is harder then...say...lock AOE, or sprist that moves with target. For a static AOE hurricane should be doing more dps then all mobile AOE.
My dps is actually really low but I figured that was because of the stat scaling to 90. I am not hit capped, my crit and haste are super low. Boomkins have always been pretty gear dependent and don't really shine until they're fully geared. Grab your heroic pieces and get as much rep pieces as you can -- then you should be doing better. :)
I'll reserve most of my judgment til I reach 90, but I have to majorly disagree with everyone who says they're having trouble questing/leveling. I don't know what else to say other than you must be doing it wrong. Killing mobs is easy, keeping myself topped off is easy, pulling multiple mobs at once is easy.

I mean, you gotta be smart about it. You don't want to pull like, 5 hard-hitting meleers that stun at the same time. But even the hard hitting guys I can at least handle 2 at a time. And the little scrawny mobs I just dot everything in sight and hurricane them down when they get to me.

I'll see how it is at 90, but I suspect most of the issues people are experiencing is simply due to poor gear. Some classes do better at low gear levels than others. Like someone else pointed out, we're very dependent on secondary stats, so at very low gear levels when everything is going into hit, we're going to be hurt more by it than some other class.
I wonder if questing strategy is affecting our different outlooks on the difficulty level. I was in Kun Lai Summit (87-89 area) at level 87, so the mobs were at or above my level while I was questing solo. Do you tend to stay in areas until you get every chain done or go in sequential order, or have you been heading to the next zone asap?
I finished all of jade forest (hit 86), did everything in the valley except for nessingwary, which took me part way into 87. I went down to the wilds, found it boring, so I went up to KL summit about half way through 87, and played there all last night til I hit 88. The things in KL summit definitely hit harder than other mobs, but like, that one quest where you're killing statues that come alive, I was able to pull 3-4 of those at a time (until some shaman started ganking me and I took it slower so I wouldn't be so low when he found me).

Really I just find the limiting factor in my questing is mob/item availability. I spend just as long or longer looking for things to kill most of the time than I do actually killing them. Well that and I generally read quest text the first time through and I don't have a lot of time to play.
09/28/2012 12:18 PMPosted by Eluial
(until some shaman started ganking me and I took it slower so I wouldn't be so low when he found me)

On top of how tedious it felt leveling one toon, this is why I'm hesitant about leveling my alt Druid. She's on a pvp realm. Always feel so paranoid and vulnerable when I'm out in the world there.
09/28/2012 12:36 PMPosted by Phaydre
On top of how tedious it felt leveling one toon, this is why I'm hesitant about leveling my alt Druid. She's on a pvp realm. Always feel so paranoid and vulnerable when I'm out in the world there.

At the risk of jinxing myself (ooOOoooo voodoo powers) I've been fairly lucky so far. Most people are so focused on questing that they really leave you alone. Most of the people I've encountered will go out of their way to not even look like they're trying to attack you, just so you don't attack them back.

I've found one group of horde that were camping a quest giver and killing everyone who came near, until some alliance got together and dispersed them, and then this shaman that for some reason had a hard on for me. I let him kill me once, thinking that would make him go away, but he kept following me so I ended up just running away all the time.
My only consolation is I noticed a lot of daily quests in this xpak make you gather stuff. Doing gathering dailies in flight form makes me happy.
I should add that reforging all to haste is just a theory, not something I have done yet. But our haste is abysmally low in this starter gear and I wouldn't be surprised if adding as much as we can right now would be our best bet. Really, our single target is quite okay. Prone to rng and our cool downs might be too strong (or rather I should say after cool downs are down our damage feels drastically worse), but if the overall numbers are low they can be tweaked rather easily.

The problem as I see it comes with aoe. Apart from being boring, it's mechanically flawed. As I said before, there is no way to cycle through eclipse while using hurricane. Nature's grace is too easily lost and astral communion is not a good answer to it. Multi dotting is lower dps than using hurricane in most scenarios and there is nothing that ties it into eclipse cycling. If you look at a frost mage with frozen orb or even blizzard, they have a chance of proccing fingers of frost. Why doesn't hurricane do the same thing for us?

It would seem to be an easy fix just to add starsurge proccing from hurricane. I would also like to see hurricane tick right away (it seems to take a second before the first tick ticks) so that when adds are moved we can re-place our hurricane and not lose any dps from doing so. Ideally we wouldn't have to use a static aoe and could have something more like rain of fire in destruction, seed of corruption in affliction, the various mage bombs/frozen orb, mind seer, or just more burst aoe that we already had in shrooms that would make movement much less detrimental, not to mention multi dotting in between being useful while still having the choice to use hurricane if there was no movement. I really hope this is something Blizzard looks at as it currently very lacking. A lot of people I talk to say oh but aoe doesn't matter, trash doesn't matter... but it does. When you are struggling mechanically on trash you aren't having fun, and I personally start to get grumpy. When on my mage using bombs, spreading dots, etc I feel really active and I'm having fun. Fire and forget hurricane while constantly having to reposition on movement with the aforementioned eclipse cycling problems give me a headache : / ...

I hope a blue eventually acknowledges that there is an issue here and takes a look at some viable solutions. I still believe we are pretty good in single target, and if we aren't the numbers can be tweaked, but our aoe mechanics themselves need to be changed. I hope my post makes sense, I've been up all night and I'm starting to get delirious >.<

There's nothing wrong with being bottom of the DPS chart (imo) if the difference in numbers between top and bottom is small. Skill level matters at that point. You might be so good you rise to the top, and others less skilled fall below you.

this.

skill>damage>dps when we're talking about getting things done/for the most part. if you can stay alive and kill stuff effectively, while dropping below 75k health for instance at times, it's ok. it takes work, everyone has their difficulties but all we can do is learn. all the time.
I had the worst time trying to level solo in Dread Wastes. I had leveled with a shadow priest, for 85-89, and I'm pretty sure he killed everything way before I even got the chance to put my dots up, and he was full raid finder geared while I had heroic raid gear on. I especially enjoyed hearing "wow! My mind blast just hit for 150k!" while I watched my starsurge crit for ~70k.

I haven't been doing dps in heroics, because I like the fast queue of a healer, and I've not come across any boomkin dps. One time I queued with a tank as dps, though, I was able to just stand there and beat the boss to death and do like 50k. :3 Doesn't matter, though, when another person pulled nearly 70k.
I did about 19-21k DPS vs. Bosses in my gear.

Which is weird, considering that's about what I did about 3 weeks ago in PvP gear at 85.

Except it's really not weird. It's all about secondary stats. At the end of an expansion you have an abundance of haste, crit, etc, even after your hit caps. At the beginning of the next expansion... you don't. Your abilities hit harder because you are a higher level, but the lack of those secondary stats somewhat tempers your overall damage.
I personally feel that the eclipse mechanic and cooldown stacking we do forces a bit of a steeper learning curve for us on fights, since in most/all heroic fights we'll get one round of burst. Not sure I'm a fan of our "Chosen of Elune" ability to be honest, only way I can see getting a decent amount out of it would be to pop it and Nature's Vigil right as we hit lunar, then hit celestial alignment (and berserking for me) as lunar ends.

Also, there aren't a lot of chances to stand and burn targets in the heroics so far, I can't really comment on the raids from this perspective, but I do remember there being more chances for uptime in the raids.
Leveling felt painful. At least, more painful than what I'm use to when I powered to max in previous expacs. I'm not sure what is worse atm, no eclipse or solar eclipse. Casting wrath feels absolutely abysmal and the hurricane spam is just ugh.

Having said that, I'm not having a lot of trouble keeping up the DPS in heroics, and I haven't reforged any gear yet. Trash is a different matter but then it's dungeon trash and tanks are just mopping it up in that area. Anything that interrupts my Incarn+NV>CA window makes me want to punch a wall though. We've been saying it all beta, but Incarn needs a rethink so that it's not reliant on CA in order maximise its output. Being a time based buff already makes it movement and time sensitive, further tying it to Eclipse only is just ridiculous.

We'll see how we go when we start raids next week.

EDIT: forgot to mention that movement sucks. A lot.
09/28/2012 11:29 AMPosted by Eluial
I'll reserve most of my judgment til I reach 90, but I have to majorly disagree with everyone who says they're having trouble questing/leveling. I don't know what else to say other than you must be doing it wrong. Killing mobs is easy, keeping myself topped off is easy, pulling multiple mobs at once is easy.

I can kite/aoe down any number of mobs (certainly not easy to do, but easy for me).

85-86 :: Easy
86-87 :: Easy
88-88 :: Slowing Down
88-89 :: Slowing down more....
89-90 :: Terrible, things take a good 20sec to kill.

I wish I was leveling like my warrior atm....463 Spear of Xuen and two-shotting mobs. What a joke.
I switched from feral to balanced and my dps numbers are severely low. Like I'm only getting 13k on wrath and 18k on starfall and starsurge. I had on feral epics and had to buy some balanced greens while I level so I can have spell power. It bums me out though to see i'm only doing 10% of the damage in dungeons.

Also...In relations to the above post, I've just started leveling in pandaria and even at lvl 85 it's taking me a long time to kill things as balanced.
I'm just now trying boomkin out? Why do all boomkin roll gear with spirit? Is it solely for mana regen?

I have also noticed in aoe pulls im usually last and in boss pulls im not top either. This is due to me being a nub at boomkin I'm sure.


Spirit = hit for moonkins. The fact you get the bonus mana regen off combat is just a nice gift, although not particularly useful because we never run out of mana.

Astral comunion is nice to have, but it sucks having to turn your balance bar around after every big pull to get an "optimal" dps setting. Most of the time a tank won't even wait for that, which is completely understandable, so chainpulls are meh.

Aoe is a complete mess atm. Even while eclipsed, you still have to moonfire spam each target, mushrooms are a joke, hurricane depletes your manapool, and that still leaves us with sloppy aoe dmg. All the setup required is quite discouraging, considering other classes like mages just get to spam arcane blast to hit 150k dps.

Single target doesn't seem bad, though.

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