A bunch of questions

Warlock
Greetings fellow Warlocks. With every expansion comes new things and of course new complaints. I have been reading topics here and there and of course seeing many complain topics as always or not any kind of answers, I decided to make my own thread. This will be lengthy so you may not want to stay lol.

I have only dungeon ran as des to get to 87. I don't know if you like NOXXIC, but I like the easy navigation of the site. They currently have Aff as first, Demon as second, Des as third. Before we go deeper, I thought Des was supposed to be top but ok. I used Demon for all of Cata. But NOXX says they are using tier 14 and sim so I am trying to take their word for it.

1. Speccs: Pros and cons your views. Myself:

Des Pro: I love the new Des and the 200k plus Chaos Bolts. The rotation is very simple. Con: I feel at times embers can be a pain to build, also they go down over time. Before a pull this can be annoying.

Demon: Pro is can use meta when we want, great for situational fights so you don't lose dps. Con: stance dancing can be annoying for some, also the felguard seems broken for me. Did dragon soul the weekend before panda, every pull before morchock he died. I have also seen many locks losing him on trash in heroic runs.

Aff: Pro is supposedly highest dps of the three. Con i see is dots before were better for movement, could dot away and because only shadow bolt was a filler, still do good dps. Relying on Mael Grasp can hurt dps for movement.

2. Grimoires. Kinda lost on these so feel free to let me know. As des been using sac. Extra dmg, higher Chaos Bolts and conflag etc. Noxx has using suprem and the observer. Why is this you feel? i also checked stats. The observer and imp have the exact same dps. But you can get the glyph for demon training where imp casts faster which would mean more dps then the observer right?

Aff everyone noxx included seems to favor sac grim. Why? I would assume because the pets can't match the extra dmg all the dots would be doing. Demon favors using 2 felguards. Again my only issue with this is them dying because i also know the wrathguard was broken unless he has been fixed?

3. talents. except for 90 I know each one and enjoy them.

4. Rotation for Aff. Ok before what I knew of Aff was starting off with Haunt. Noxx has the order as Coe, Agony, Corrup, Unstable then Haunt, unless I am reading it wrong. What do you use and why? Only thing I could see about casting Haunt last is you would not have to recast is so soon. On a dummy after casting the 3, I had to recast it immediately and ate all 4 shards very fast.

Last I have been seeing alot of people not like Aff and aoe, Does this seem to be an issue for you and why? Thank you for reading all this lol. Will be awaiting responses.
i admit now trying aff in a few dungeons i do understand the reason for sac. 50% dmg increase i had no idea it did that. des and demon are 30% and 35% but wow 50 is fantastic
i'm sticking with GoSuprem, we've been wanting updated demon models for so long, while i've been wanting 'enslave demon' to be a permanent "pet capture" for soooo long.

i'm liking demo, i've not used aff/destro since the patch as i loved the changes to demo so much. demo was more fun in cata with being more complex than aff/destro, and when panda patch hit, demo got even more fun. aoe is still amazing (jaw hit the floor the first time i was in a dungeon and my chaos wave aoe crit for 100k+)
1. Aff - best single target dps, least mobile, spectacularly BAD aoe (takes a while to set up, awkward to use, often times you are better off just multi dotting). On a mobile fight you just lose.

Demo - most amazing aoe, high single target dps, great pet selection. Cons...none really. This spec can do everything, though single target sims slightly less than aff, i will say it is generally just as good if not better, as almost every fight requires movement, and a good demo will always be at peak efficiency even with movement involved.

Destro - meh. Boring to me. I never liked it, decent aoe, lower than demo's, worst simming single target.

2. GoSac seems the best for aff and destro iirc. It also provides not insignificant self healing. Not a bad choice, obviously horrendous for demo. Its a tossup for demo between supremacy and service. Service for fights with obvious burn phases, supremacy otherwise.

3. You can switch them each fight.

T1 Harvest life is very useful for all specs when a fight is going to be aoe heavy. I default to soul leech, as i don't see the need for THAT many surv cd's, and i prefer Dark Bargain.

T2 talents don't matter, unless you need to stun for aoe (obv shadowfury), howl is pretty bad compared to the other two, default to mortal coil for a self heal.

T3 I prefer dark bargain, though you can default soul link. I've never used sac pact.

T4 I default unbound will, though be warned, blizz sucks and the skill doesn't seem to work for the majority of scripted boss stuns. It also does not work usually on channeled stuns (like any variant of devouring, picking up, etc). Burning rush may be useful, though demo already has leap and is mobile, so i do not use it.

T5 Obviously depends on your spec. I would default sacrifice for destro and aff. Supremacy for demo.

T6 is very situational obviously. Default is archimonde's for between 0.5-5% dps increase.

4. Aff, you open with sb:sw for dots, then haunt. If a boss does not have a burn phase to wait for, I would dark soul right before sb:sw so all your dots benefit from ds haste. I typically flay (oops, i mean grasp) twice to stack up agony, then pop all your trinks etc and haunt and continue.

Afterwards refresh dots manually until 20%, then drain soul and sb:sw and haunt up.

You will almost NEVER have enough shards to keep haunt up even close to 100% of the time. Don't worry about it. In fact, save shards for burn phases or phases you know you will be able to stand still.

Aff and aoe sucks because it takes so long to setup. Typically you will need to, sb:sw primary target (hopefully an elite that lives more than 5 seconds), sb:seed it, blow up seed fast with either fel flame or something, then it gets confusing.

It is unclear whether

1. you should spend the rest of your soul shards sb:sw all targets
2. rain of fire
3. keep seeding primary target and blowing it up
4. harvest life if you took it.

Also, depending on your raid comp, you may also have to sb:curse of elements for spell damage debuff.

Its confusing and sucks butt.
tehrotz. well i only used demon a few times, and i went off only because my felguard kept dying. i know alot of other locks are going through this as well. in terms of suprem grim i copied this from another topic i was in

my current felguard: hp 78,504 damage:6826-6827 dps 3750 attack power 35.343.

wrathguard hp: 98,130. damage: 5460-5461 dps:3,000 attack power 23,559

suprem grimoire says these demons do 20% more damage. check every other pet. each one their dps goes up, not down. it is why demon and checking noxxic is using service grim right now


i did do the brewery and love the aoe. then again going des and watching the aoe was just as amazing. thanks for the post
secrets: dam thanks for all the info lol.

1. Thanks. A:So far playing Aff I agree with you 100%.

B:Demon is good, as i said sometimes i still feel constant meta dancing can be annoying on fights. out of all 3, the hardest rotation i feel.

C: I know some may find Des boring. Then again doing a 300k chaos bolt in Sho Pan was breathtaking lol. Questing wise when embers are up. nothing i'm not one shotting.

Talents. Ya most aoe I go with harvest only because when i do pull threat, instant full bar. on a boss i agree i would go with leech. bargain is mandatory imo. shadowfury i keep because sometimes u need a quick aoe stun. only keep blood fear because other 2 turn me off. Ya not using 90 yet but each one seems situational. a 500% aoe can be deadly used right so can't moving and casting imo.

Ya thanks a million for the affliction tips. I wanted to ask after someone posted about wtf is up with haunt and shards because dam they seem to go FAST. I must ask why do you use soul burn and soul swap on a boss? i understand dark soul when it's up but i dunno the tooltip for soul swap confuses me.

ya as far as aoe, again only done a few runs, seed of corrup making me angry. before you couldnt cast it fast enough and it was like a bomb,now after i do soul burn then seed of corrup, the thing just takes forever to pop. i tried tabbing and hitting everything else with seed but seems like it wasn't working so just went with harvest life. seemed to be doing great damage until seed blew and i recast it.
SB > SS on a boss applies all 3 dots (CoR, CoA, UA) immediately. This means you get to cast Haunt faster and get straight into the Malefic Grasp channelling meaning maximum uptime on DPS on the boss whilst also staying DPS competitive.

AOE is trickier on an Affliction lock but weak only in certain circumstances. Its heavy on the Soul shards so is dependent on how quick you move from mob to mob as to how often you use it..but try:

Pick mob with most HP
SB > SW > SB > SoC > Harvest Life with periodic refreshes of SB > SoC (or just normal SoC if shards are down) if the mobs are still alive.

takes a bit of practice but you can really make them hurt with that combo.

it does depend on mob health and numbers where you use this type of combo but it really is nasty.
Hey Photonic: Yes of course dumb old me too busy playing alts, and not actually READING the tooltip lol. Yes using soulburn then soulswap i been using soloing and wow casting all 3 at once is a win! Usually questing no point in even putting coe on since everything dies too fast lol.

However i must ask because i haven't obviously done any raid bosses. Ok using a shard to cast these already we are down 1. Seems shards are hard enough to keep as is, in terms of a boss is it perhaps better to hard cast each one? I mean from a questing standpoint i just drain soul after the dots are applied and keep moving. I can imagine a boss encounter no going so well.

Just seems like using SB:SS is great for instant dots, but would that overall kill dps by losing the potential of keeping haunt up longer

Also i noticed fel flame refreshes things. Again why is hard casting them better? I mean i know for instance immolate for destruction the initial tick can be critted, but dots tick over time so why is using FF a bad idea?

ya aoe i will take that into consideration next time i do a dungeon run. with these 45 min- hour que times i usually quest and take a break for a bit before i ever get into a run lol.

So far using demonology isn't bad dam sure when pulling out 2 felguards, however even questing in jade forest boy he sure can go down fast lol.
Playing the lock is never set in concrete...you will adapt your playstyle depending on your current gear, the mobs you're fighting and/or the raid compositions. That said, the basics of warlocking are ultimately the same. You need to get your dots on target and maintain them AT ALL TIMES...the easiest way to do this is SB > SS then manual refreshes. Personally I have never hardcasted Soulburn as I see that time in between waiting for the shard as the perfect opportunity to refresh your dots and casting malefic grasp (where a lot of your dmg comes from).

Everyone has their own style, you just need to work hard at your rotation to perfect it and find what you feel comfortable with...then do it BETTER =)
^^ yes i agree. when i came back to wow in february i missed dam near all of lich king so all the cata changes were so new to me. i felt like i was playing this character for the first time. After much reading and much posting, my dps went through the roof.

Which is why i keep asking people their opinions and playstyles. I mean i do understand that yes play what YOU want. However perhaps it is a bit of ego, or some friendly competetion, but as noxxic says if i am playing des and doing 90k and then aff lock next to me is doing 100, well then i must adapt.

i mean as you said things are not in concrete. all it takes is one patch and bam aff is the lowest and des is top or demon. i know this sounds dumb but just woke up lol so what did you mean by:

Personally I have never hardcasted Soulburn as I see that time in between waiting for the shard as the perfect opportunity to refresh your dots and casting malefic grasp


if i am correct you are saying don't keep using soulburn because as you manually recast your dots you are saving a shard. when i see the term hardcasted i think people may be misusing it, myself included so i am unsure of what it technically means.
my bad...i used to play destruction prior to mop and would never hardcast Soulfire (if i could help it)...i would always use a soulburn for the insta-soulfire. Now with mop and the way our shards generate there is no hardcasting of soulburn..you either have one or you're waiting for one.

all these soul spells are doing my head in :)

hardcasting for this spell was basically casting it without using a soulburn first..it was like a 3 second cast of eternity.
^^ lol ya indeed. i tried des once in cata and just wen with the flow of demon because the majority of people said demon was best. for myself my highest dps was as demon. I do like the new demon more, but been trying aff just cause it's supposedly the best you know.

Just wanted to say aff i know what it's for, but i admit questing now say the mob has 100k hp. I send in the voidlord and i sb;ss and use haunt. i don't mind the 2 shards since i get them back drain soul. But for the full 100k to come in takes a few seconds because that's the point of dots.

i went back to des for fun and been using the voidlord and my god i can't put it down lol. still doing 150k chaos bolts and i can't pull aggro off the big guy. on top of soulburn my embers are always on 4. i am killing/questing way faster then aff and hey to each their own.

we shall see what 90 brings but for now gona stay with des lol.

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