Rogue PvE in 5.1.0 (All Specializations)

Rogue
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Thanks for all the help, much appreciated
11/29/2012 08:12 AMPosted by Truce
Thanks for all the help, much appreciated

My pleasure. :)
11/28/2012 09:38 AMPosted by Verelyse
NOTICE: I've cancelled my game subscription as of 11/28/2012, and it will expire on 12/20/2012. I'll keep everything updated until that point but this guide will not be updated after that - obviously. Cheers!


noooooooooooooooooooo
Even if I was staying, it'd be a bit weird for someone not raiding to be running a sticky like this. ^_^

It's put me a step behind being able to respond to questions from my own experience, which isn't a good place to be. As the class goes through all those tiny evolutionary changes from patch to patch, it'd be harder and harder for me to avoid relaying impractical or outdated information. Which I don't want to risk.
09/30/2012 11:57 AMPosted by Verelyse
NOTICE: I've cancelled my game subscription as of 11/28/2012, and it will expire on 12/20/2012. I'll keep everything updated until that point but this guide will not be updated after that - obviously. Cheers!


Thank you for your guides, good luck in whatever you choose to do in the future.
Thank you. :)
Sad to see you go.
Also lol'd at your Daily Blink feedback form
12/06/2012 06:04 PMPosted by Shadwphoenix
Also lol'd at your Daily Blink feedback form

Lol. ^_^
Okay so Im confused in regards to the listed stat priority for Assassination Rogues.

Noxxic.com is saying the stat priority after hit and expertise cap is:

Mastery > Crit > Haste

where as this guide is claiming:

Mastery > Haste > Crit

So whats up here? Which one is correct and which one is wrong? I've trusted Noxxic for quite a long time and have never been let down and have gotten good results with their advice every time. Now this guide is very well put together and answered some questions that Noxxic didn't answer (mainly which enchants to take if I couldn't afford the best i.e. Dancing Steel is way to expensive.) So just want to get a clear answer on the stat priority. Thanks : )
Noxxic is usually frowned upon around these parts...

also question:

shadowcraft is currently ignoring expertise and just reforging straight into mastery after being hit capped. im assuming this is an error, but id like to make sure. is shadowcraft broken or am i wrong in prioritizing the expertise cap before stacking mastery?
Okay so Im confused in regards to the listed stat priority for Assassination Rogues.

Noxxic.com is saying the stat priority after hit and expertise cap is:

Mastery > Crit > Haste

where as this guide is claiming:

Mastery > Haste > Crit

It depends on gear level, and the stats I have here are honestly a little old so I should check on them.

In either case use http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/ to be 100% sure for your character.

Noxxic is usually frowned upon around these parts...

also question:

shadowcraft is currently ignoring expertise and just reforging straight into mastery after being hit capped. im assuming this is an error, but id like to make sure. is shadowcraft broken or am i wrong in prioritizing the expertise cap before stacking mastery?

Assassination doesn't necessarily cap expertise, which is the same now as it was in Cataclysm.

It's just how the stat values fall out.
So expertise is fine below 7.5 if i can get more mastery?
Yeah, unless you want to use the same set of reforges for combat as well. Then you should cap it.
i'm a big advocate of not playing combat ever so guess mastery it is :)
I know the feeling. ^_^

It was literally years before I used a spec that wasn't assassination for anything.
It's not that I don't want to play anything but assassination. It's that I feel like a fraud playing a rogue and not wielding daggers. I'm weird.
Shadow Blades: "Auto-attacks hit for shadow damage and combo-point generating abilities generate an extra combo-point for 12 seconds." Our new toy in Mists of Pandaria; you should macro shadow blades and adrenaline rush together, since restless blades effects both equally.


Macro-ing these two abilities together is a brilliant idea! Thank you so much for this! I've taken to calling the macro "Shadow Rush". Anyone else come up with interesting names for this macro?
So, it seems like Combat MASSIVELY favors haste.

I have to ask: I have been assassination/subtley for a while. I went subtlety for leveling, but upon hitting Townlong Steppes, the specs reversed. Prior to that, if I did Mutilate, I'd never end a battle above 50% health, but Sub would kill without issue. In Steppes, it's the opposite.

So now I'm looking into Combat, but stats are... worrying for me. (Looking into combat as an offspec to have fun in, not leveling. Having no issues with mutilate now, it was just 85-88 that was hell.)

I'm always going to cap hit/exp, even as assassination, that's just an OCD thing. However, what I have to ask, is if I want to have one set of gear for both, the difference I see is Mutilate favors Mastery by a lot and Combat favors haste.

Which spec would be least hampered by prioritizing the opposite stat? As in, would I get hurt more in a haste setup as assassination, or as a mastery setup as combat?

And don't get me wrong, I love the front post... but you kind of ignore combat's rotation. When posting a rotation ina GUIDE, the last thing you should do is end it with etc. without mentioning the full rotation. ANd if that is the rotation, where does Eviscerate fit into it, as you mention using it like 3-4 paragraphs later. You say etc. a lot in the rotations, leaving some of the moves out, and it's very confusing for someone new to a spec.

So, from what I understand:

Keep Revealing Strike Up, Slice N Dice, SS to 5 combo points, then either Rupture, Eviscerate or SnD, based on the duration remaining on SND, Rupture, then Eviscerate, then repeat, using Shadow Blades/Adrenaline Rush on CD?

(So Keep RvS, SnD, and Rupture up, in that order, using SS to get combo points, and pop Eviscerate if you have 5 combo points and SnD and Rupture are both up/not near expiration?)

Is that right? And if so, for the first SnD, do you build 5 combo points first, or just use it off the first few combo points you have from a Shadow Focus Ambush > RvS? And is Killing Spree a cooldown for single target as well, or just multi-target?

And just a curiosity thing: Does combat have something similar to Assassination that keeps slice N dice up, or is it something you need to manually refresh?

And in regards to the posts above, Noxxic should be your LAST RESORT site, but above Icy-Veins. Always check these forums and MMO-Champion for any class guides that are current first. Getting info from a multitude of players that play the spec is much better than people who rarely know how to play the spec and go off sims.
Verelyse gave this to me to post:

Hiya; sorry there seems to've been some confusion.

I don't have an active game subscription at the moment, so I asked someone to post this response for me.

So, it seems like Combat MASSIVELY favors haste.

I have to ask: I have been assassination/subtley for a while. I went subtlety for leveling, but upon hitting Townlong Steppes, the specs reversed. Prior to that, if I did Mutilate, I'd never end a battle above 50% health, but Sub would kill without issue. In Steppes, it's the opposite.

So now I'm looking into Combat, but stats are... worrying for me. (Looking into combat as an offspec to have fun in, not leveling. Having no issues with mutilate now, it was just 85-88 that was hell.)

I'm always going to cap hit/exp, even as assassination, that's just an OCD thing. However, what I have to ask, is if I want to have one set of gear for both, the difference I see is Mutilate favors Mastery by a lot and Combat favors haste.

Which spec would be least hampered by prioritizing the opposite stat? As in, would I get hurt more in a haste setup as assassination, or as a mastery setup as combat?

If you have to pick, use assassination's reforges for both. The EP values for all specs are significantly depressed at lower gear levels, and I assume that'd be even more true with just questing and dungeon gear below the level cap. But prioritizing mastery should be the best way to go.

And don't get me wrong, I love the front post... but you kind of ignore combat's rotation. When posting a rotation ina GUIDE, the last thing you should do is end it with etc. without mentioning the full rotation.

Rogues have two distinct priority systems for our rotations, divided between our opening rotations and… everything else. I only used "etc." to mark where the opening rotation is finished and the normal priority system kicks into place, which is outlined as thoroughly as possible in the following paragraphs.

This is something I worried over a lot, though – I've been at this so long it's hard not to take the basics for granted. I rewrote the rotation parts of the guides several times, but I am sorry that I still don't think they're as good as they could be. I can't edit them now though, so they are what they are.

At least until the guide comes down when patch 5.2 goes live.

It's definitely something I'll keep very much in mind if I ever come back to this, though.

Now, for the good stuff:

Combat's finisher priority is slice and dice > rupture (when appropriate) > eviscerate.
  • Slice and dice should always be up when you're actively attacking something.
  • Rupture is used for single-target DPS when you're not energy capping.
  • Eviscerate is filler when neither of the above need to be refreshed.

You can ignore rupture for a very minor DPS loss, especially while leveling. And it shouldn't be used on anything that won't live long enough for it to tick through its full duration. Slice and dice can be applied or refreshed with any number of combo points, while rupture and eviscerate should only be used with 5.

So I think you got it.

The only thing is revealing strike doesn't have to be up 100% of the time, just as long as it's up for every sinister strike, rupture, and eviscerate. So if you're low on energy when it drops you can wait and pool energy for a few seconds before using revealing strike again and getting back into your full rotation.

And yes, use DPS cooldowns on CD unless there's a reason to save them.

And is Killing Spree a cooldown for single target as well, or just multi-target?

Either one. But if multi-target make sure you have blade flurry on.

And just a curiosity thing: Does combat have something similar to Assassination that keeps slice N dice up, or is it something you need to manually refresh?

It's manually refreshed. Using a simple addon (or a complicated one, depending on your preference) to track slice and dice and a few other key abilities is a really good idea, as well. Like RoguePowerBars, or something. Personally I used Raven, but there are a lot of easy-to-use ones out there.

And in regards to the posts above, Noxxic should be your LAST RESORT site, but above Icy-Veins. Always check these forums and MMO-Champion for any class guides that are current first. Getting info from a multitude of players that play the spec is much better than people who rarely know how to play the spec and go off sims.

And don't forget Elitist Jerks!

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/
Awesome, thanks for answering Vere, and thanks Aeri for posting her response for her. :)

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