The New Warchief

Story Forum
10/03/2012 02:31 AMPosted by Amathyst
think Slyvannas would be interesting. Not sure how it would work but she has the shards of frostmourne.

No she doesn't. Sylvanas went to see the Frozen Throne after Arthas' death (as per Edge of Night), but when she arrived all that remained were the pieces of his armor. His body, and the remnants of Frostmourne, had already been taken away.

The remains of Frostmourne were likely taken by Tirion (who hid them somewhere safe), while Arthas' body was probably taken by Jaina or Varian (as The Shattering implied they'd also visited the throne).
I vote for Sylvanas because the forum rage would be hilarious.
10/03/2012 10:18 AMPosted by Malles
I'm personally hoping Thrall pulls some shaman stuff to revive Grom and Grom will become the new Warchief. But fanboys never get what they want so my money's on Saurfang or Aggra.

Aside from the jarring nature of abruptly bringing back a long-dead character, Grom would make an absolutely terrible choice of Warchief.

Remember Grom Hellscream drank demon blood not once but twice, the second time he knew exactly what the consequences were and he did it anyways. The Warsong clan in general has always been very warlike by Orcish standards, and Grom proved that without the influence of Thrall he was far to susceptible to corruption.

Anyways, as I've said before I think Baine and Vol'jin are objectively the best candidates for leading the Horde. I have a personal preference to Vol'jin because of how he saw Garrosh for what he truly was long before anyone else was willing to admit it, but both have the potential to be very solid contenders by the time the Siege of Orgrimmar rolls around.
I can't cite a source, but I seem to recall Metzen actually saying Thrall will be back as Warchief. I think that's the most "likely" thing to happen, even if I think it would kinda backtrack on Thrall's character development.

Speaking of character development, I'm actually kindof sad Garrosh isn't apparently learning from Cataclysm. He threw a guy off a cliff because of a bomb being dropped on some innocent druids. He calls out Sylvannas for using the scourge angel chicks I can't spell right right now.

As much as I'd love to see Baine as Warchief, the orcs themselves need a leader. I'd say Saurfang, but he's retired in Northrend and the reason he wasn't appointed as Thrall's replacement is he's old. Saurfang did say he'd stop Garrosh if he went too far, if I recall correctly...
Gameplay-wise, introducing a non-orc Warchief would pose some thorny and interesting questions. Say Baine is chosen as warchief - would he move to Orgrimmar to rule? Or would he rule from Thunder Bluff? Subsequently, if Baine is ruling from Orgrimmar, who is the stand-in Tauren leader in Thunder Bluff? More interestingly, say Vol'Jin is chosen. Who is the Troll leader in the Echo Islands, while Vol'Jin rules from Orgrimmar? Is there anyone to stand-in?

And who would be the Orc racial leader? They'll still need one. Would it be Saurfang? Nazgrim? How would they chose? Election? Nominated by the new Warchief?

I have no answers to these questions, but I find them interesting to consider.
10/02/2012 02:32 AMPosted by Kroxxigar
You people aren't listening to me! "I" Should be Warchief! I'm the only one qualified.

What the heck, I'm on board.

Kroxx for Warchief!
I personally believe Nazgrim or Nazgrel would fit perfectly for Warchief.

With Nazgrim, many can say he's a loyalist. But the pure fact of the matter is so is Loth'remar. They're all loyalists to their own extent, and that is the Horde. Considering that Blizzard has already said Garrosh is going to be getting worse, I wouldn't be shocked if Nazgrim joined this rebellion. Beyond just that, he's been getting not so much a spotlight, but has been shown in every expansion since wrath. When taking into considering all Garrosh was, was a Chieftain of the Mag'har who was letting his people die, Nazgrim has more than enough opportunity.

And of course, Nazgrel. I personally would loooove Nazgrel as he's been around since Warcraft Three, but hasn't been touched since BC. We knew he was an adviser for Thrall, and a good friend of Thrall's. So he would be an easier choice for more moderate style "Woo hoo the Horde! Let's not be like our fathers who put us in the camps!" Beyond that, he also would be the bridge to bring Danath (and hopefully Stromgarde) back to the Alliance.

It won't be anything except for an orc, and it won't be a council. WoW likes to keep it's theme. Even since Warcraft Three, there was a Supreme leader of the Alliance that had a council like structure.
Now I know it would never in a million years happen, nor would it be particularly fair to the alliance...but does it make me a bad person to want Wrathion for the job? XD
My top candidates in order of preference, most to least:

1. Vol'jin
2. Thrall
3. Saurfang
4. Baine
5. Eitrigg
6. Sylvanas
7. Lor'themar
8. Boss Mida
9. Basic Campfire
10. Gallywix
Lol, if Gallywix gets it the Horde is doomed. Wrynn offers him a couple nickels and he opens the gates to the Alliance forces.
It is entirely possible that Vol'jin, Thrall's close friend, could be Warchief. It does not have to be an orc, strictly speaking. He has an even temperament for political dealings and yet is not afraid of a battle if it is called for. He is brave and trustworthy, he is a friend of the Tauren. He cares deeply for the Horde. He would be a good pick.

I also like Saurfang even though he has some age on him. It would be good for him as well for he is an honorable orc.

I have no idea what Blizz has in store - but I hope to have tears in my eyes when I say again, "For the Warchief, For the HORDE!"
10/03/2012 10:54 AMPosted by Dashiiva
I vote for Sylvanas because the forum rage would be hilarious.
And now a play on of future forum rage
I also remember hearing something about Metzen saying Thrall would resume the position, but I later heard that it wash't such a sure thing.

Count me in with the Vol'jin supporters. It'd be best, however, for the position of Horde Warchief (not necessarily orcish warchief) to be abolished. Giving so much power to a single person without any real checks and balances is a recipe for disaster. Any such system is bound to create more Garroshs than Thralls.
Vote Kroxxigar! He will bring the Nelves into the Horde.
Kael thas Sunstrider my true lord whom I follow and all will be devoured by the burning legion for the dark lady sacrotes
To me it doesn't really say much for Baine or Vol'jin or Sylvanas or Lor'themar as leaders that they will probably need Varian to help put them in power. It actually makes them look pretty pathetic for even letting it get to that point IMO. They'd be like the President of Iraq after the US came in and deposed Saddam. "Nobody" knows who it is and "nobody" cares.

Garrosh is powerful and has a lot of powerful allies? So what. If you want to be Warchief, go out and prove that you deserve it by rallying the Horde and taking care of business yourself. Yes, there are a number of cool characters around, but there is only one credible leadership figure for the greater Horde, and that is Thrall.

Sadly, Blizzard failed to develop any other compelling and sympathetic leadership figures in the Horde during the TBC-WotLK-Cata era -- at least that they didn't subsequently kill off (since Saurfang the Younger would have been the clear choice to succeed Garrosh had he gone on to lead the Horde forces in Icecrown) -- and we will pay the price with an extremely contrived transition of power that makes the Horde look stupid and impotent.
To me it doesn't really say much for Baine or Vol'jin or Sylvanas or Lor'themar as leaders that they will probably need Varian to help put them in power. It actually makes them look pretty pathetic for even letting it get to that point IMO. They'd be like the President of Iraq after the US came in and deposed Saddam. "Nobody" knows who it is and "nobody" cares.

I think this could be mitigated somewhat by the Horde rebellion being near-total by the time the Siege of Orgrimmar rolls around. The basic idea is that aside from a handful of hardcore loyalists all traditional members of the Horde end up revolting (although some for different reasons then others), and Garrosh is forced to rely on new recruits to mount a defense of Orgrimmar (Blackrock Clan, Mogu remnants, various beasts, etc.). That way the leader of the rebellion will be Warchief by pretty much any real metric before the Siege even begins.

That way it's not that they need Varian to put themselves in power, since they would already control well over 90% of the Horde's territory and a similar percentage of it's population. What they will work with the Alliance with however is beating Garrosh, who for one reason or another has the potential of using his new forces to overwhelm both factions if left unchecked.

Probably not a perfect solution, but we need to strike a balance where both factions have a personal stake in the outcome of the Siege of Orgrimmar, and neither faction feels like they were simply "along for the ride".
10/03/2012 11:25 AMPosted by Calco
I can't cite a source, but I seem to recall Metzen actually saying Thrall will be back as Warchief. I think that's the most "likely" thing to happen, even if I think it would kinda backtrack on Thrall's character development.

Backtracking on his mess of character development in Cataclysm would be a step in the right direction.
Saurfang gets my vote, he is abit like a combination of the best parts of garrosh and thrall, he's a warrior buyt he doesnt charge blindly into battle. I would personally like to see the promise that Saurfang said to Garrosh at Warsong hold carried out:

Varok Saurfang turns around to speak with Garrosh.
High Overlord Saurfang says: We are surrounded... Our enemies press in from all sides, young Hellscream.
Saurfang walks to the central and Borean Tundra portions of the hide map of Northrend on the floor, kneeling to point them out, then walks off the map to stand before Garrosh.
High Overlord Saurfang says: The Scourge descends like locust from the north.
High Overlord Saurfang says: The Alliance holds the only secure shipping lane in this region, and even that is at risk of being lost to those dreaded mists.
High Overlord Saurfang says: Our only viable port for resupply is held by the Forsaken on the other side of this blasted continent!
High Overlord Saurfang says: Anything our zeppelins cannot haul must be brought in by ship and travel the length of Northrend to reach us.
Saurfang walks back to his usual spot.
Garrosh Hellscream grunts.
Garrosh walks up to the map and kneels.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Shipping lanes... supplies... You bore me to death! We need nothing more than the warrior spirit of the Horde, Saurfang! Now that we are firmly entrenched in this frozen wasteland, nothing shall stop us!
High Overlord Saurfang says: Siege engines, ammunition, heavy armor... How do you propose to shatter the walls of Icecrown without those?
Garrosh stands.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Propose? I will show you what I propose!
Garrosh crushes the figures and flag indicating Valiance Keep on the map.
Garrosh Hellscream says: There... Now we now have a shipping lane.
Garrosh crushes the figures and flags indicating Valgarde and Westguard Keep.
Garrosh Hellscream says: And just for good measure...
Garrosh walks back to his usual spot.
High Overlord Saurfang says: So the prodigal son has spoken!
High Overlord Saurfang says: Your father's blood runs strong in you, Hellscream. Impatient as always... Impatient and reckless.
High Overlord Saurfang says: You rush headlong into all-out war without a thought of the consequences.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Do not speak to me of consequences, old one.
High Overlord Saurfang says: I drank of the same blood your father did, Garrosh. Mannoroth's cursed venom pumped through my veins as well.
High Overlord Saurfang says: I drove my weapons into the bodies and minds of my enemies.
High Overlord Saurfang says: And while Grom died a glorious death - freeing us all from the blood curse - he could not wipe away the terrible memory of our past.
High Overlord Saurfang says: His act could not erase the horrors we committed.
High Overlord Saurfang pauses.
High Overlord Saurfang says: The winter after the curse was lifted, hundreds of veteran orcs like me were lost to despair.
High Overlord Saurfang says: Our minds were finally free, yes... Free to relive all of the unthinkable acts that we had performed under the Legion's influence.
High Overlord Saurfang nods.
High Overlord Saurfang says: I think it was the sounds of the draenei children that unnerved most of them... You never forget...
High Overlord Saurfang says: Have you ever been to Jaggedswine Farm? When the swine are of age for the slaughter... It's that sound. The sound of the swine being killed... It resonates the loudest. Those are hard times for us older veterans.
Garrosh Hellscream says: But surely you cannot think that those children were born into innocence? They would have grown up and taken arms against us!
High Overlord Saurfang shakes his head.
High Overlord Saurfang says: I am not speaking solely of the children of our enemies...
High Overlord Saurfang pauses.
High Overlord Saurfang says: I won't let you take us down that dark path again, young Hellscream. I'll kill you myself before that day comes...
Saurfang turns away and looks at the map instead.
Garrosh Hellscream says: How have you managed to survive for so long, Saurfang? Not fallen victim to your own memories?
Saurfang turns around for a moment to answer.
High Overlord Saurfang says: I don't eat pork...
High Overlord Saurfang spits.
Yeah, my evolving vote is for Saurfang. Revisiting everything that Thrall did post abdication, he really shouldn't be reinstated. We loved him in Warcraft, but he hasn't held up that reputation. And don't forget that Thrall is the one who put the runt in charge, whether it was bad character development or not.

I think Saurfang is good enough to exercise his power well and wisely, and nobody has really given a good argument against him. However I still think that command of the Horde needs to be shared between the faction leaders, at least in making decisions. The warchief, whoever it may be, could still hold the position and formally have the power to make decisions, but in practice it would be nice to see the leaders making decisions together.

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