"Early Advantage" skill bugged ?

Pet Battles
Singing Sunflower has an ability called "Early Advantage" it : deals double damage if the user has lower health.

now, i never seen it doing double damage, ever. not when my pet has lower health, not when my pets total health is lower, not when i have higher .. anyone else seeing this ?
I've levelled a Sunflower to 24 and can confirm that Early Advantage at times will simply not work (however, I have seen it proc - personally I've had about a 50/50 rate of it going off under correct conditions).

In the first place the wording is extremely vague. It is implied that it will go off doubly if <your sunflower> has lower health <than the enemy you're fighting>. However, it doesn't specify if it means total health pool or current health.

I can clarify that (with 99.9% certainty) it goes off your pet's current health (not total).

However, is it a lower health percent or lower absolute value? (i.e. 50% vs enemy's 60%, or 500 hp vs enemy's 600 hp?)

From everything I have seen it appears to be the latter. Your absolute hp value must be lower than your enemy's absolute hp.

Another caveat: from what I've also experienced your hp must be lower when the round begins. So if the enemy goes faster than you and you predict that it will hit you so that your pet's hp will (after the attack) be lower than the enemy's, no dice - it still will not double proc (even if your prediction was correct and your hp was lowered under your enemy's by the time your sunflower used Early Advantage).

Personally I think that it should calculate hp's at time of use at not at the start of the round (as this makes for more a more interesting experience - you can think ahead/gamble a bit), but it is what it (apparently) is.

However even under those conditions (my flower's absolute HP was lower than enemy's at the start of the rounds), at times it just simply would only fire once. As I said, it was about a 50/50 (maybe I'm being biased and it was more like 60/40 or 70/30) chance.

So yes, the TL;DR that it is buggy but I have seen it go off a majority of the time.

To be honest my sunflower's stats rolled a tank/high HP build anyway, so I ended up swapping that spell out as soon as I could for Sunlight. :>
If it works the same as the critter ability "Comeback" in that it conditionally does a second attack (which it would seem to, based on Maenia's post), it does the second attack based on the HP number after the first attack. So say you are at 200 to start the round and they are at 250, and you're going first. You select Early Advantage. Now, you'd think right then that it would do double damage. But the first hit of the attack reduces your opponent to 180 HP. Since he now has lower HP than your sunflower, the second attack isn't launched.
thanks guys, makes sense
10/02/2012 12:56 AMPosted by Maenia
Another caveat: from what I've also experienced your hp must be lower when the round begins.

I was in a pet battle where both of us used this ability in the same round; My whelpling happened to be faster and the others happened to have more health to start. Therefore mine did double damage so that the other pet had lower health. Then his turn he had lower health so his did double damage as well.
I have had roughly 50/50 success with this ability as of 6.0. That occurrence was just a feat to see both pets do double damage in the same round.
There is something up with this ability. Sometimes it does it right, sometimes the extra damage gets sent to the twisting nether beyond the reach of even the postmaster, and sometimes the extra damage happens, but is cut down.
11/05/2014 06:29 PMPosted by Aliandrin
There is something up with this ability. Sometimes it does it right, sometimes the extra damage gets sent to the twisting nether beyond the reach of even the postmaster,


The first hit knocked your opponent's pet to a lower HP level than yours, cancelling the second hit (yes it checks twice like that).

and sometimes the extra damage happens, but is cut down.


Probably used it against an Aquatic pet, the second hit counts as a DoT which is why it gets halved by the Aquatic racial. Odd, but that's how it works.
It's not just the Singing Sunflower.

The Infinite Whelpling's Early Advantage only hit for 325 on a Sandy Petrel, when the Infinite Whelpling had less health than the Sandy Petrel. So it's not just the aquatic pet racial.

EDIT: Did the same thing with a Jumping Spider, only hit once for 325.
Add Coral Adder to the list.

Can anyone explain to me why Early Advantage did damage twice to a Spirebound Crab, which is an aquatic?
[Pet Battle]: Early Advantage dealt 488 damage to enemy Spirebound Crab
[Pet Battle]: Early Advantage dealt 244 damage to enemy Spirebound Crab

It sounds to me that something got messed up. If the Aquatic racial means they do not take the second tick/application of Early Advantage, why did it hit twice on Spirebound Crab?
If the first hit knocks the enemy pet lower than your pet, that cancels the bonus damage.

Also congrats to Zenø for dredging up a two year old thread.
11/05/2014 08:30 PMPosted by Oblivienne
It sounds to me that something got messed up. If the Aquatic racial means they do not take the second tick/application of Early Advantage, why did it hit twice on Spirebound Crab?


You misread Stardrake's explanation.

The second hit not happening at all is due to the first hit knocking the enemy pet below your pet's health, so the check for the second hit returns false and the second hit doesn't occur. This is unrelated to:

The second hit doing reduced damage is due to it being a DoT for the purpose of the Aquatic racial, and so it is reduced versus aquatics.

You conflated the two. They're two separate issues.
Thanks for the explanation, Larkspur. Still, the description on the ability is a bit equivocal. I know they probably couldn't fit a full, accurate description on that little tooltip window, but it would have been nice to have that info provided.
11/05/2014 10:16 PMPosted by Oblivienne
Thanks for the explanation, Larkspur. Still, the description on the ability is a bit equivocal. I know they probably couldn't fit a full, accurate description on that little tooltip window, but it would have been nice to have that info provided.


It's not technically inaccurate to its description (except for the weird bit about how it does a reduced hit on Aquatics). It's that it makes its hit check for extra damage after the first hit goes through, and they don't spend words in any tooltips about when hit checking is done.

There's a lot of stuff like pet battles and I'd honestly rather not have mile-long tooltips explaining the code precisely...in-game. I WOULD like some explanation on a Blizzard-supported site, though. Or even people reverse engineering the abilities ala SimCraft for the main game.
Even if they just re-worded "double damage" to something like "hits twice" would be an improvement, lol.

EDIT: Nevermind, I just realized that wouldn't be accurate either.

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