Blizzard stills fails at dungeon loot.

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
10/02/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Labcoat
It's not stingy, it's smart--especially when you have a limited amount of time in the first place to gear up.


I agree and we did the same whenever possible. It's not like I saw spam running dungeons with monks and druids. I guess it just feels good to be the exception to the rule for once lol.

10/02/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Labcoat
Yeah, I doubt it would. You would see the same people queing up because they will WANT their gear. They would just be biting the bullet (And perhaps complaining about it later on the forums) on how they would have to perform their different rolls.


Right, but... instead of quing as tank (the limiting factor in que times) they are now queing as a DPS (the role there is a surplus of) instead. By not allowing DPS to que as tank and still roll on their DPS gear you are removing tanks from the que and replacing them with even more DPS. Everyone's que times would inevitably go up.

Be happy you have your own gear in the first place, if I ever pugged I'd be competing for the same gear as druid/monk tanks. I don't think requiring plate to do the same through different means is really that absurd.
Personally I am kinda glad I can roll on AGI weapons. The polearm I have is clearly meant for hunters or druids, but there were none in my group and I happily snagged it. It was a clear upgrade from the 404 ilvl strength piece I was using. Obviously a 450 strength weapon would be much better, but until I can find one I like this one.

And the only pieces I have seen other classes/specs can roll on are weapons/rings/trinks/ect. This is something that has been around for a very long time and I really don't see why people are so upset. Yeah it's kinda sad when the DK wins the spell power piece (and equips it!) but its a simple fact of life. Just pretend your piece didn't drop and move on.
10/02/2012 10:36 AMPosted by Bubblenrun
My main is a shaman. Thanks though.


Liax looks cuter.

10/02/2012 06:57 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
the que time is faster for everyone.


How much faster though? I'll agree it's faster, but if it's like 10seconds, then it doesn't really matter.
10/02/2012 01:51 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
Right, but... instead of quing as tank (the limiting factor in que times) they are now queing as a DPS (the role there is a surplus of) instead. By not allowing DPS to que as tank and still roll on their DPS gear you are removing tanks from the que and replacing them with even more DPS. Everyone's que times would inevitably go up.


But, as I said, they would also balance out with DPS queing up for tanks/heals.

Be happy you have your own gear in the first place, if I ever pugged I'd be competing for the same gear as druid/monk tanks. I don't think requiring plate to do the same through different means is really that absurd.


I've done the same thing already on my shaman who's Enhancement and my hunter a few times, and I'm doing it right now.
10/02/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Labcoat
Didn't stop players in Looking For Raid.


...2/25 and 1/5 is a very different ratio.

10/02/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Labcoat
Hell, you would probably barely even (Assuming there's a difference at all) notice a differential in que times simply because how ridiculously quick the times are to complete them in the first place. Hell, I remember drinking the wikket brew on my hunter (And I'm REALLY undergeared) in Stormstout Brewery. yet being on the trash pull on the final boss before my 10 minute monkey buff expired.


There is no way that removing tanks from the que in favor of DPS can help que times. The que times are what they are because there aren't enough tanks to go around for all the DPS. Less tanks means longer ques, no matter how you cut it.

10/02/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Labcoat
Also, please tell me how forcing more DPS to go heals/tank for 5 mans would make your que times as a DPS terrible. Please. It goes both ways.


If you think tanks are choosing a 15 minute wait over a 15 second wait you are delusional. It's not like tanking these instances is intimidating, they are a faceroll.
bags and ques are why I tank (in full dps gear)
10/02/2012 01:57 PMPosted by Arianity
How much faster though? I'll agree it's faster, but if it's like 10seconds, then it doesn't really matter.


It's not 10 seconds, it is a large but unmeasurable (by us anyways) amount. When you are waiting in que for 10 minutes you a literally waiting for a tank. This is why when you que as a tank the other 4 come instantly. The less tanks there are to go around the longer you wait for them.

10/02/2012 01:57 PMPosted by Labcoat
But, as I said, they would also balance out with DPS queing up for tanks/heals.


You can't possibly actually believe any significant number of people are choosing to wait 15 minutes over 15 seconds. I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense.
The loot system is a disaster, they need to clean it up fast before most people get 90
10/02/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
It's not 10 seconds, it is a large but unmeasurable (by us anyways) amount. When you are waiting in que for 10 minutes you a literally waiting for a tank. This is why when you que as a tank the other 4 come instantly. The less tanks there are to go around the longer you wait for them.


Yeah. We can't measure it, but blizzard should be able to. If you're waiting 10min anyway, 10min vs 10min 30seconds isn't a huge deal. 5min vs 10 min, and the balance definitely swings towards lowering queue times.

And you might not even have that many people switch back, if they bothered to add in a proper offspec button, instead of fighting greed/disenchanting.

Or just LFR it and make it seperate loot. Either with ~ the same drop rates we have now, or, if they wanted to be super fancy, make them LFR bags but you can pick if you prefer tank/dps gear as MS, regardless of role in dungeon.

Or just stick dps gear in satchels for tanks, etc.

The loot system itself isn't really broken, but it doesn't mesh well with what LFD is for. Since we're never going to get LFD changed, might as well design the loot system around it.
10/02/2012 02:09 PMPosted by Arianity
make them LFR bags but you can pick if you prefer tank/dps gear as MS, regardless of role in dungeon.
you already CAN pick which gear you want to roll NEED on in LFD regardless of role in dungeon...
10/02/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
...2/25 and 1/5 is a very different ratio.


Right. It's a better ratio.

10/02/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
There is no way that removing tanks from the que in favor of DPS can help que times.


10/02/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
You can't possibly actually believe any significant number of people are choosing to wait 15 minutes over 15 seconds. I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense.


It does when you know you're going to be guarenteed a better roll than those you would otherwise be competing with for heroics.

10/02/2012 01:59 PMPosted by Postonforums
bags and ques are why I tank (in full dps gear)


Also this.
make them LFR bags but you can pick if you prefer tank/dps gear as MS, regardless of role in dungeon.
you already CAN pick which gear you want to roll NEED on in LFD regardless of role in dungeon...


But you can't pick how other people are going to act. And expecting people not to be selfish isn't realistic.

That's like saying LFR DS was "fine, people will pass gear they don't need". No. They didn't. The only reason you don't see it quite as prevelant in 5mans is peer pressure.

It doesn't help me that i don't need on offspec gear.
10/02/2012 02:16 PMPosted by Arianity
you can't pick how other people are going to
that would be because you are NOT playing their character, so why would YOU get to say what they roll NEED on?

you can roll NEED on gear you need for your class and so can they, it's that simple...

just because you are restricting YOURSELF from rolling NEED on gear you need for your class doesnt mean other players should do the same

you have the opportunity to roll NEED on gear you need for your class and so does everyone else in the group - so roll NEED on gear you need for your class if you want the same chance to win it as everyone else in the group has - and if you dont, that is YOUR problem, not anyone else's
that would be because you are NOT playing their character, so why would YOU get to say what they roll NEED on?

you can roll NEED on gear you need for your class and so can they, it's that simple...

just because you are restricting YOURSELF from rolling NEED on gear you need for your class doesnt mean other players should do the same

you have the opportunity to roll NEED on gear you need for your class and so does everyone else in the group - so roll NEED on gear you need for your class if you want the same chance to win it as everyone else in the group has - and if you dont, that is YOUR problem, not anyone else's


Right. Bubble already covered this in the first post.

The WHOLE POINT of the thread is to state that we shouldn't be able to--even if it means that I wouldn't be able to pass gear for my guildies/vice versa.
The WHOLE POINT of the thread is to state that we shouldn't be able to
players shouldnt be able to what?? roll NEED on gear they need for their class?? why the heck not??
players shouldnt be able to what?? roll NEED on gear they need for their class?? why the heck not??


I'm not going to even bother with someone who's obviously clueless.

You're as dimwitted as the second poster to the OP in this thread.
10/02/2012 02:25 PMPosted by Labcoat
players shouldnt be able to what?? roll NEED on gear they need for their class?? why the heck not??


I'm not going to even bother with someone who's obviously clueless.

You're as dimwitted as the second poster to the OP in this thread.
well if you arent going to bother helping ppl understand what it is you are saying then dont be surprised when no one bothers to listen to you
10/02/2012 02:28 PMPosted by Zaxen
well if you arent going to bother helping ppl understand what it is you are saying then dont be surprised when no one bothers to listen to you


You really are stupid.

Hint: READ THE ORIGINAL POST.

It was posted for a reason.
10/02/2012 02:17 PMPosted by Zaxen
so why would YOU get to say what they roll NEED on?


Because anything they roll need on directly effects me. As long as that's true, it's going to cause problems because you can't enforce people from being jackasses.

See above for solutions.

I don't care what or why he rolls need. I care how it effects me.

There is no valid explanation for why i can roll need on an item, destroy it for lols, and win it over someone else.

Loot right now is a social system in a nonsocial medium.

ps:

We already have restrictions (ie, mages can't roll on plate), so we know some restrictions are ok. Then it simply becomes a question of how much.

also, any of the above systems would fix it, unless abusing the system is 'allowed'.

(in a bit of arush, so it's not as eloquent as possible, but tldr; you're arguing for the sake of arguing. I'll fix it later).
No, I get it. We also tried to stack groups (though likely not to the same extent, I ran with hunters a lot) and I never had an issue with finding guild groups. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it I guess its just not a problem I'd expect such a distinguished guild to have. I just find it somewhat humorous because you guys are TM and I watched you guys do a number of beta streams and yet I wind up having an easier time finding groups in VOW.


We've unfortunately had a few people sizzle from the start of the expansion burn. That and some people are working on alts while others aren't. Not everyone is on the same page. The difference between you and us is that we have 95 90s already, and a lot of them are raid ready, but all of them aren't always working on the same thing. There's a lot of work being done, but it's not always organized. That kind of stuff happens.

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