Anticipation....................

Rogue
Going back on what I said because you clearly don't understand what Hail is saying and I figure he could use some help.

It's better to save CPs in a dps lowtime (Take sub for example, if you have no expose weakness), and then dump them when you get a find weakness up. It will greatly increase the value of those combo points.

Basically instead of 2 80k Eviscerates, you get an 80k and a 120k.

Net gain of 40k Damage done.

Make sense now?
Ok so lets use mut with that ability giving 3 CP each time and having that be your only CP generator. And we'll assume the following:

5 mutilates for 15 CP total (minus however many wasted)
however many envenoms you can fit.
3 GCDs through you get a 15% damage buff.
format is ability > current number of CP+AP.
Envenom damage = E
Mutilate damage = M

Your way:

Mutilate > 3
Mutilate > 6
Envenom > 1
***PROC***
Mutilate > 4
Mutilate > 7
Envenom > 2
Mutilate > 5
Envenom > 0

Damage: (2 + 1.15*3)M + (1 + 1.15*2)E


My way:

Mutilate > 3
Mutilate > 6
Mutilate > 9
***PROC***
Envenom > 4
Mutilate > 7
Envenom > 2
Mutilate > 5
Envenom > 0

Damage: (3 + 1.15*2)M + (1.15*3)E

So the difference in this case is that my way there's an extra Envenom in the proc, while with yours you get an extra mutilate in the proc. That said Envenom, like all finishers, is quite cheap, so it actually could lead to being able to use an extra ability in the proc. Even without that though you have to note that saving up for a proc is better and does not cause any waste of CP if done right.

Edit:
09/30/2012 02:48 PMPosted by Relikar
I figure he could use some help.

Thank you so much. I felt so alone earlier.
Why do I get the feeling they won't understand your train of thought.
09/30/2012 02:48 PMPosted by Relikar
Basically instead of 2 80k Eviscerates, you get an 80k and a 120k.


Assuming you only get a net of 2 evis off?

Again I am not saying you should build up 10 CP then blow them on 2 finishers.

I am saying you should use them as you get them, dont bother taking the time to store them and save them cause then you arent using the skill to its fullest.

So the difference in this case is that my way there's an extra Envenom in the proc, while with yours you get an extra mutilate in the proc. That said Envenom, like all finishers, is quite cheap, so it actually could lead to being able to use an extra ability in the proc. Even without that though you have to note that saving up for a proc is better and does not cause any waste of CP if done right.


That situation though is tailored made for that playstyle.

I am not sure what procs you are saving for, but is there one that on average procs every 3 GCDs? In addtion how many GCDs would the proc last.

RnG buff by their nature are random. And over the long course of a fight trying to save up the anticipation charges for those situational moments wont lead to any gain I dont think.

Not to mention cases where say a boss has a flight phase that pops and you are sitting there with 5 AP stored up that are now going to be wasted since your were saving them for a proc that didnt come.

As opposed to using them as they come where you are guaranteed to unalize every CP saved.
I have the same feeling, but what I don't understand is how. I mean isn't it obvious?

Edit: Evidently both our feelings were right. Guess it wasn't.
09/30/2012 02:52 PMPosted by Relikar
Why do I get the feeling they won't understand your train of thought.


I understand it fully, I just disagree.
Actually your reply indicates a fundamental misunderstanding. You see in this debate there is a right answer. We are trying to tell you in various ways that your answer is not right. We've tried to give concrete evidence, but it hasn't worked. Now sure everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when your opinion is wrong and you are broadcasting it to people that may not know better and believe what you say, well then you are doing more than just holding a wrong opinion and hurting your own dps.

Oh also, that proc could be something like an on-use trinket or a CD or something like FW, none of which are random.
Actually your reply indicates a fundamental misunderstanding. You see in this debate there is a right answer. We are trying to tell you in various ways that your answer is not right. We've tried to give concrete evidence, but it hasn't worked. Now sure everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when your opinion is wrong and you are broadcasting it to people that may not know better and believe what you say, well then you are doing more than just holding a wrong opinion and hurting your own dps.


You may think my opinion is wrong, however I think your's is wrong. Shocking I know, that everyone isnt the same.

As I said before, trying to store them up instead of using them more fluidly in my experience on the beta, just doesnt work out.

09/30/2012 03:12 PMPosted by Haileaus
Oh also, that proc could be something like an on-use trinket or a CD or something like FW, none of which are random.


Indeed, but that goes without saying...like timing things for Hero or boss debuffs other such things.

I am talking about in general.
09/30/2012 03:06 PMPosted by Timat
Assuming you only get a net of 2 evis off?


Example. You're only dealing with placing 1 eviscerates at a time.

Say you dance 5 times in a typical raid boss, 2 Vanishes

Over the course of of this fight you get, lets say, 100 Eviscerates.

Going off your way, say we get 40 Without Find Weakness, and 60 With. Going with previous numbers, 40 x 120k + 60 x 80k = 9.6 Mil.

Assuming you move one eviscerate from every non-Find Weakness phase to a Find Weakness Phase, you'll have a net gain of 7 ( 1 for each dance, 1 for each vanish ) times the extra 40k that that eviscerate landed for. Math: 47 x 120k + 53 x 80k = 9.88 Mil

So in the end, you gained 280 000 Net Damage by moving around a few eviscerates.
09/30/2012 03:22 PMPosted by Relikar
Assuming you only get a net of 2 evis off?


Example. You're only dealing with placing 1 eviscerates at a time.

Say you dance 5 times in a typical raid boss, 2 Vanishes

Over the course of of this fight you get, lets say, 100 Eviscerates.

Going off your way, say we get 40 Without Find Weakness, and 60 With.

Assuming you move one eviscerate from every non-Find Weakness phase to a Find Weakness Phase, you'll have a net gain of 7 ( 1 for each dance, 1 for each vanish ) times the extra 40k that that eviscerate landed for.

So in the end, you gained 280 000 Net Damage by moving around a few eviscerates.


That is something you control and can plan for though.

I am not againt timeing things with big CDs...that just common sense.

What I am saying is that you shouldnt go through a fight sitting on 5AP the majority of the time.

If you know a major Debuff is going to drop on the boss or a major buff on you, or similar situations like those then yes build them up in...anticipation (no pun intended) for that situation.

(i.e. if you know the boss gets a damage taken debuff at X% health for Ysec...then as they approach X% health I would start to save my AP)

However most of the time OUTSIDE those PLANNED circumstance, you should be using them as you get them. Not sitting on them waiting for the next drop.
09/30/2012 03:28 PMPosted by Timat
What I am saying is that you shouldnt go through a fight sitting on 5AP the majority of the time.

09/30/2012 02:00 PMPosted by Haileaus
Well, realistically 4 CP is better just to be safe (for sub/assassination).


You can go through a whole fight keeping it limited to 4 CPs until right before your cd. It's still an increase.
09/30/2012 03:33 PMPosted by Relikar
What I am saying is that you shouldnt go through a fight sitting on 5AP the majority of the time.

Well, realistically 4 CP is better just to be safe (for sub/assassination).


You can go through a whole fight keeping it limited to 4 CPs until right before your cd. It's still an increase.


Thats where I disagree. It would be more beneficial to actually USE those stored CP you get to get in more attacks. Then when you know a buff/debuff is coming store them up.

Why would you essentially ONLY use anticipation during CDs when you could be using it for the entire fight?
Not to mention the trouble that would cause if you got a HaT proc or unexpected Mut Crit and are left with 5CP and 5AP.

Are you then going to sit on 5AP and go back to using finishers at 4cp?
This is getting nowhere and I have differential equations to do. Timat, I hope some day you see the errors of your ways. Relikar, *holds out fist for a bump*. Peace out.
09/30/2012 03:42 PMPosted by Timat
Thats where I disagree. It would be more beneficial to actually USE those stored CP you get to get in more attacks. Then when you know a buff/debuff is coming store them up.


You're not getting any extra attacks. You're MOVING attacks to high damage sections of the fight. No loss, only damage gain.

09/30/2012 03:44 PMPosted by Timat
Are you then going to sit on 5AP and go back to using finishers at 4cp?


Anticipation is passive you moron. It's always active, when you use a finisher the stack immediately changes to combo points. There's not "Hey I got 5 stacks, better dps like normal until I burst, then I can eviscerate, HIT THIS NON EXISTENT !@#$ING BUTTON THAT'S SUPPOSED TO GIVE ME 5 CPS, And eviscerate again! Hurray I'm good at this game!" There's no %^-*ing way to sit on 5 charges of anticipation and use 4 point finishers.

Edit:
Relikar, *holds out fist for a bump*. Peace out.


Noooo don't leave me!
09/30/2012 03:42 PMPosted by Timat



You can go through a whole fight keeping it limited to 4 CPs until right before your cd. It's still an increase.


Thats where I disagree. It would be more beneficial to actually USE those stored CP you get to get in more attacks. Then when you know a buff/debuff is coming store them up.

Why would you essentially ONLY use anticipation during CDs when you could be using it for the entire fight?

You have a serious misunderstanding going on here.

We can't attack at every single global now due to slow energy regen. So it's not losing attacks, it's delaying it.
09/30/2012 03:58 PMPosted by Relikar
Noooo don't leave me!

Your post was so wonderful it has brought fervor into my heart. You must be some god or goddess, perhaps even grey-eyed Athena!
For PvE purposes, works well with assassination since you can mutilate at 4 CP and get a full 5p envenom without losing any CP. Definite DPS boost for someone trying to optimize their rotation.

Its use in PvP is to stack full anticipation and do 2 envenoms in a row for burst, but right now (at least with my gear) 'burst' is pretty much out of the question anyway so I don't even bother. I assume at some point envenom will become strong enough that two envenoms in a row would be pretty painful.
The question would be of how to build of Anticipation to 5 combo points AFTER you already have 5? I use NugCombobar and doesn't show 10 if I have Anticipation..
09/30/2012 04:54 PMPosted by Xejvluqstzyr
The question would be of how to build of Anticipation to 5 combo points AFTER you already have 5? I use NugCombobar and doesn't show 10 if I have Anticipation..


Power Auras would be able to do it. (Has it been updated yet?)

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