Why we are energy starved.

Rogue
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As far as PvE is concerned, the energy regen is pretty slow. It's getting to the point as I'm gearing up as Combat that it isn't as frustrating as it was, but I find Assassination nearly unplayable. Sub is kind of a middle ground between the two.

I genuinely feel that they should look at moving some our passive damage sources into active ones. (Special Abilities) While it's true that different classes play differently, it isn't fun to have a huge majority of your damage to come from things you have no control over. Having our special attacks do what other classes get as regular attacks, and making up the difference via passive damage isn't compelling gameplay, nor fun.

Rogues were a bit too strong last season. The easiest way to fix this would have been to scale back Sub's spec bonus for free % agility, and/or tweaking the armor bypass of Find Weakness.
The most frustrating thing for me as a rogue is the limited choices I have outside of
stealth.

- We have strong opening abilities and good damage with cooldowns, as it should be, but strong pvpers will do whatever they can to negate or mitigate this.

- As a melee class we are extremely limited in our mobility and have to sacrifice too much to just keep hitting our target.

- We take huge amounts of damage with no way to effectively repair it. Every class in the game has at least a choice of a strong heal ability that doesn’t sacrifice much in terms of damage. Recup requires us to spend combo points, (which require melee attacks and energy to obtain thus sacrificing damage), and it heals us for less with 5 combo points then most instant heals other classes use without sacrifice.

- Our defensive abilities are extremely easy to counter and the cooldowns are so long we can barely prolong a fight.

- Cheat death is extremely buggy/weak, Leaching poisons doesn’t heal enough, Elusiveness cant be used during stuns or ccs (when we take a majority of burst damage)

- Kidney shot should never be parried. What other class has a stun that can be parried and still put on cooldown. I understand missing a targetable stun but we cant target a Kidney shot.
...Why not make it so each time you do a melee non-spell attack you gain a single energy(just a plain attack) that way you build it at the rate you attack with your weapon? (if someone said this already sorry, just didn't read through all 8 pages...)
As long as I have played a Rogue (which is quite a while) I've never liked being forced into a spec. Combat. Which has remained largely unchanged since wow has released. With the exception of Killing spree and Revealing Strike. It's the same. Old. 2 button. Spec with A few CDs, and juggling SnD. Brain dead spec.

But as stated in this thread our energy regen is rather slow. Which in turn makes our damage suffer. I can't even play Assassination. Without thinking "Combat while braindead, produces more dps. Because i have more energy" Another thread Blizzard should take a look at
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350772 - This thread has alot of our issues summed up. It's not a cry for "MORE DAMAGE" but rethinking the class to be more fluid and fun to play.

I don't do much pvping. I mean I arena from time to time, but nothing over 1750+ rating. But i can't even fathom how Subtlety plays without it's free crit talents. Nothing stings more than looking at Recount and seeing MY #1 DAMAGING ATTACK IS AUTO ATTACK. Why is that?

Also, what's up with the largely disappointing and confused talent, and Glyph trees? Like why is Deadly throw along with two defensive abilties in Tier 2? Why make us choose between are two best mobility abilties in tier 4? Shadowstep and prep. I mean Hunter's get Readiness as baseline.... and what's with paralytic poison? We already have two stuns that share a DR. Why throw ANOTHER stun into it? Oh boy i love having 3 abilties that share the same DR.

Glyphs is another thing. I understand the model was "We don't want them to have a major impact on dps or performance" But that doesn't mean you make most of them a garbage.
Most of which have little pve applications. But I do applaud AR's glyph that was good.

Just one more thing and i'll keep it short. Mobility, Mobility, Mobility, MOBILITY. I understand you want ranged not to get caught all the time, but none of the time is not something that should happen. When DKs never have to toe to toe with a rogue because i can't get in. means there's a probem with our Mobility.

Basically what I'm trying to state is that rogues need to be rethought. Now. Before the expansion gets too late and you're teaching an old dog who just learned new tricks of the trade. Just to say "Hey, time to re-relearn your class!" Tacking on new abilities and making choose between our signature abilities is not a good design model. I know at least for me. I want a fluid, fun class. That doesn't have to 'UB3RPWN" The charts or Killing Blows.

Once again. Check http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350772
Just for the record, I'm still monitoring this thread.

Note: Please don't be vulgar, hyperbolic, draw the discussion off-topic, violate the forum code of conduct, or otherwise disrupt this potentially very constructive thread. These things will make me sad. I do not want to be sad. None of us want to be sad. No sads.

Speaking of follow-up questions:

  • What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?
Just for the record, I'm still monitoring this thread.

Note: Please don't be vulgar, hyperbolic, draw the discussion off-topic, violate the forum code of conduct, or otherwise disrupt this potentially very constructive thread. These things will make me sad. I do not want to be sad. None of us want to be sad. No sads.

Speaking of follow-up questions:

  • What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


Honestly? I can't say that I'm thrilled about much of anything. But I will say i like the fact you guys tried to give rogues more raid utility. Shroud of Concealment and Swiftblade's Cunning. I'd like to see more of that.
10/05/2012 05:22 PMPosted by Midvale
What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?

Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot going on with rogues that feel like they are going really well at all. A few things that i think are going well in general are the benefit from the new talent system. Allowing balance across the specs makes me a happy assassin. (regardless of the fact that I've respecced to combat)
In the grand scheme of things, its nearly impossible to avoid comparing one class to another with respect to general mechanics. We can say that the fact that we can stealth gives us a major advantage, and in many ways it does. In other ways, our stealth is meaningless if our cc and damage output is subpar.

Now that you mention it, it seems you have hit the nail on the head without even realizing it. Rogues don't feel special in any area. The only thing that many rogues are happy about are the changes that effected every other class.
10/05/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Daxxarri
  • What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


As far as PvP goes, perhaps shadow walk keeps me from being targeted possibly if detected in stealth. Other than that, I am drawing a blank. Oh, it is nice not to have to keep buying poisons, but not getting to choose exactly the combo I want to use is annoying.
10/05/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Daxxarri
What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


The only thing I can honestly say that works well for me and my spec (combat) is our cleaving ability. But then again I'd still like to see Blade Flurry hit an additional target. I've played with all of the other specs and there is nothing in there that makes me feel like something is working "well" because nothing else is.
What I feel doesn't work: the piddly damage of SS. I feel like I'm mashing it for no other reasons past having another auto-attack swing.

I feel like Shadow Blades works wonderfully for the most part but something about it just doesn't sit right in my mind when I use it.

I like the change to SnD about it helping with energy regen but I wish it's duration wasn't gutted. It's not so bad when we get to stick on one target or rarely switch but having to switch targets seems to make managing SnD a complete headache since energy regen is so slow now. I don't feel like I articulated that well enough but hopefully someone can pull what I'm trying to say and explain it better.

Thank you for your pressence, Draxxarri. We really realy appreciate it. :) (It also helps that you're not berating us for being concerned about our enjoyment of the game!)
10/05/2012 04:00 PMPosted by Phatality
While I'm on that subject, I'm curious why other pure DPS classes - Mage and Hunter - kept both their mobility abilities (Blink, Disengage) on Shorter CDs than Shadowstep in addition to maintaining their CD reset abilities (Cold Snap, Readiness)? Some of them aren't even talents they have to sacrifice other abilities for.


This, +10192301928185189237

I always bring this up too... And hunters and mages always seemed just as OP as us in Cata.
10/05/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Daxxarri
What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


Mastery works well for sub now.

I don't know how many times I mentioned that I wished there was a rogue spec the focused on finisher damage, rather then CP damage.

Now if only it would hit for decent numbers outside of shadow dance, we'd be getting somewhere D:
Just for the record, I'm still monitoring this thread.

Note: Please don't be vulgar, hyperbolic, draw the discussion off-topic, violate the forum code of conduct, or otherwise disrupt this potentially very constructive thread. These things will make me sad. I do not want to be sad. None of us want to be sad. No sads.

Speaking of follow-up questions:

  • What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


Just for the record, I'm still monitoring this thread.

Note: Please don't be vulgar, hyperbolic, draw the discussion off-topic, violate the forum code of conduct, or otherwise disrupt this potentially very constructive thread. These things will make me sad. I do not want to be sad. None of us want to be sad. No sads.

Speaking of follow-up questions:

  • What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


Not to be pessimistic, but not much.

Everything was nerfed, how can you expect people of the Rogue class to be unbiased about this subject? A huge number of things were nerfed, in all aspects of the class, and the things we were given, as you can plainly see from this thread and many others, people believe were bad design decisions.

We gained two major things in MoP: The lv 90 tier, and Shadow Blades.

The 90 tier people believe is subpar, and should be baseline with some tweeking. They don't feel "powerful" like lv 90 talents should be. They feel like stuff we should have by default (made all the worse, by in some cases other classes having it baseline). Heck, in the case of Shuriken, we kinda did since throw used to apply Crippling poison, which was one of the best features of that ability and was just plain great.

The Shadow Blades is just -another- long CD we have to pay attention to, when we're already drowned in them. One that's powerful enough that it's very presence makes it so our damage outside of it must be lowered.

There are two things I like with MoP: The poison change, and Shadow Step being chooseable by more than one spec. The poison change is nice, one damage, one utility, with Shiv as a way of giving another effect. Though, I do believe the none-lethals need another look at: Paralytic poison is horribly weak compared to the other two choices in that tree, mind numbing loses a lot of it's effect considering a lot of casters have fast cast or instant cast abilities.

Shadow Step, should be baseline. It should not be a choice. It's is to fundamental to PvP to be a choice. People have said it before, melee need a gap closer by default, ones without range options especially (aside from Rogue, Shamans have the weakest melee gap closers, but that's fine, they also have more options from range). I love that I can use it as Assassination, I hate that I -have to choose- it for Assassination.


I agree with everything here.. this is exactly how i feel.
10/05/2012 01:22 PMPosted by Squirlness
Woah, a blue. I didn't think you guys were allowed on the Rogue forum.

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