Ret lvl 90 talent

Paladin
Light's Hammer is clearly out of the picture for Retribution.

Looking at the numbers, however, I'm a little confused about which talent to actually pick. Holy Prism, as per my tooltip, does 27,217-30,444 damage to a target, while radiating ~18-20.5k healing to 5 nearby allies. This happens one time every ~20 seconds. Drop Holy Prism on a target three times a minute, and that makes roughly 81.6-91.3k damage.
Also, I can cast Holy Prism on an ally. I have a macro to cast it on a focus target (like a tank) so it heals him for 27,217-30,444 and radiates 18.3-20.5k damage to FIVE nearby enemies. All the damages from Holy Prism have the ability to be critical strikes.

Execution Sentence, on the other hand (which seems like it SHOULD be the dps talent), deals 65,754 damage one time every minute. It has no raid utility like the radiated heal from Holy Prism, though it can be cast on an ally to heal him for the same amount rather than damaging an enemy.

Now, hands down, Holy Prism will be a far better dps talent for AoE fights. It seems to me, though, that it will also be superior in single target fights, simply by looking at the hard numbers.

I'm not super great as far as spreadsheets or whatever goes, so I'll put this up to a question: has anyone actually tested (on target dummies or raids or what have you) which would be a better dps talent? Does Execution Sentence need to be buffed? Either by increasing its damage or reducing its cooldown? Does Holy Prism need to be nerfed? What sort of hurt will that put on Holy Paladins if it gets taken down too far?
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t130889-ret_5_0_4_mop_retribution_concordance_retcon_panda_ing_dps_meters/#Tier_6

"Execution Sentence is superior for single-target Boss fights. Multi-target fights incline towards Light's Hammer. T14 breakpoint is somewhere between an average of 1.5 and 1.7 targets for LH to do more damage than ES. If 2 out of 3 LH casts can get 2 targets for full duration, LH wins. More than 2 targets or 2 targets every cast for full cast cause LH to win by a landslide."

Holy Prism's lower cooldown is beneficial, of course, but you still need a GCD to use it, which often means you're displacing/delaying another ability to use it (or not using it on cooldown). So although the cooldown is 3x shorter, it's not quite accurate to compare 3 Holy Prisms to one ES/LH, because the 3 HPs have the additional requirement/limitation of using more GCDs.

Of course, since talents are so easy to switch (you ARE carrying a stack of Tomes of Clear Mind, right?), you can just swap back and forth whenever it matters, or if the fight isn't hard enough to bother switching, just pick the one that is most useful most often.
ES for single-target. LH for 2+ consistent targets. Holy Prism almost never.

Edit: Like Rav said, carry tomes on you and swap back and forth as needed.
holy prism provides the burst (and a nice heal to boot) for those moments your HP moves are on CD and you are ranged from the target
I'm taking this from a PvP perspective although
10/05/2012 04:34 PMPosted by Manifest
I'm taking this from a PvP perspective although

I tend to use ES for PvP. Haven't really given HP a shot yet though.
In addition to being very strong for AoE damage, LH also provides a nice chunk of group healing. Obviously, our job as Ret isn't healing, but it's a nice perk.
10/05/2012 04:37 PMPosted by Svayne
I'm taking this from a PvP perspective although

I tend to use ES for PvP. Haven't really given HP a shot yet though.
I'm liking the 40 yard range. not that it'll kill anything on it's own, but it feels nice being able ping caster who think they're out of reach. It's also good for tagging mobs out in the world just that little bit sooner if there's someone else around swiping them all.
I may have initially read the Light's Hammer tooltip incorrectly, and have discounted it ever since I first read it. I do carry tomes on me at all times, and as Rav said, didn't also take into account the global cooldown usage and possible loss of uptime on HoP.

I appreciate all the feedback. I've been doing heroics after a late hit to 90 (working and schooling full-time takes too much precious wow time), and had initially taken ES right off the bat. I swapped to HoP and it seemed to be a little better, but that could be thanks to the short boss fights granting 4-5 HoP and only one ES.
Ret pally's need to be buffed! I am sick to death of every class pwning me. Most class's out heal my dps and i am in full heroic gear. why does wow like mages/warlock/Spriest more than any other class?
You aren't supposed to be able to kill other players in PvE gear - at least not effectively.

Get PvP gear and use that, and you'll do better against them.
10/07/2012 05:22 AMPosted by Beefjerkie
Ret pally's need to be buffed! I am sick to death of every class pwning me. Most class's out heal my dps and i am in full heroic gear. why does wow like mages/warlock/Spriest more than any other class?


This thread did not need this kind of hijacking, complain elsewhere.

As far as the OP's topic goes, LH has always been great to use on trash, or even fights where the group's clumped up and big AoE damage is coming out (second boss of MSV /grumble). That said, most bosses don't have too many mechanics where there'll be a lot of adds, but like the above have said, pick and choose to preference.

In PvE or in the world, I tend to stick with Holy Prism simply because I like its utility. As Prot, Light's Hammer hands down, and if I want to really maximize my dps in raids, Execution Sentence.
Since I am not raiding yet, I've been sticking to Light's Hammer. I have found its utility and AoE damage absolutely essential to fast running heroic groups. Especially given the chaotic nature of such groups where a healer can DC at the worst possible time. I remember keeping a tank alive on a boss with a combination of LH and Selfless Healer.

On that subject. Tanks. Please. If you see a big hammer hit the ground and start shooting yellow electricity everywhere, don't drag the mobs out of it! It is healing you and hurting them! I understand you have to reposition yourself due to various enemy attacks, but LH has a fairly large radius. Please take notice. I have lost count how many times I have thrown down a Light's Hammer right on the tank (giving him room to move and stay in the circle), and he'll still drag the mobs OUT of the area.

As for everybody's advice, I'll have to remember to carry a stack of tomes once I start raiding. That is a great idea. Would allow me to use LH for trash and crowded boss battles while using ES for DPS on specific boss fights. Feeling kind of dumb I didn't think of that myself. lol
12/06/2012 04:31 AMPosted by Holysavior
On that subject. Tanks. Please. If you see a big hammer hit the ground and start shooting yellow electricity everywhere, don't drag the mobs out of it!


Blame Blizzard. They've trained us to move out of big circle things. :-p
on a pvp note holy prism can be nice to try knock rogues out of stealth.

cast on your self or an ally and any stealthy within 15 yards gets hit :)

people say it wasn't a smart damage ... it hits things you cant see :D
LH for AOE.

ES For single target. Also, macro your engineer gloves to ES. Oh you dont have engineering? Should probably get that.
on a pvp note holy prism can be nice to try knock rogues out of stealth.

cast on your self or an ally and any stealthy within 15 yards gets hit :)

people say it wasn't a smart damage ... it hits things you cant see :D


You know I actually did this. Killed a Rogue at our tower in Karasang. Saw his corpse go away, waited a few seconds. Holy Prismed myself and killed him again in a few seconds with a chain proc on my Templar's Verdict. He barely had time to move before I'd killed him :P. Its too bad the passive so unpredictable. Which probably surprised him as the first fight was a Dual KO as when I killed him the first time his poison tick killed me and it took much longer.
10/05/2012 04:37 PMPosted by Svayne
I'm taking this from a PvP perspective although

I tend to use ES for PvP. Haven't really given HP a shot yet though.


ES can be dispelled. It's not very good for pvp, while Holy Prism does high burst and heals you/teammates at the same time. It's far and away the best choice for pvp


I tend to use ES for PvP. Haven't really given HP a shot yet though.


ES can be dispelled. It's not very good for pvp, while Holy Prism does high burst and heals you/teammates at the same time. It's far and away the best choice for pvp


Absolutely!

HP is really the only choice for pvp, also why Selfless Healer is the better option in PvP, due to the other options being dispellable.

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