I got perma benched as a priest :<

Priest
10/04/2012 10:33 PMPosted by Nixx
I've seen bads carried to Saviour and death's demise, It's cute you think that doesn't happen.


Well seeing as only about 100 guilds in the world have cleared 6/6 and I believe Reprisal is a 10m guild (the size that's generally much harder to carry a single person in)...

But I mean, that's just me drawing conclusions from facts. I realize a lot of people aren't a fan of that.


And I've already drawn from conclusions surprised of facts, The numbers say we are behind everyone else and in many cases a significant amount, And i'm NOT the only priest experiencing this, You mean to tell me that every priest complaining about this is bad, I find that somewhat unlikely damn near improbable.


Well seeing as only about 100 guilds in the world have cleared 6/6 and I believe Reprisal is a 10m guild (the size that's generally much harder to carry a single person in)...

But I mean, that's just me drawing conclusions from facts. I realize a lot of people aren't a fan of that.


And I've already drawn from conclusions surprised of facts, The numbers say we are behind everyone else and in many cases a significant amount, And i'm NOT the only priest experiencing this, You mean to tell me that every priest complaining about this is bad, I find that somewhat unlikely damn near improbable.


Not really.

I think that Monks and perhaps some other healers are broken in 25m and maybe a little too strong in 10m. I think other healers scale much better in relation to raid size than priests and that's a problem.

I think that Disc is bad, frankly. But Disc isn't the only Priest healing spec, and still brings a moderate amount of utility.

What I'm saying is that you, and many like you, are blowing this out of proportion. Could Priests use buffs? Yes. Cool, make threads about why you think that and offer suggestions Do they deserve to be sat and deemed non-viable. No. Cool, don't make whiny threads and don't simply link to the front page of WoL and go "SEE".
I'd guess that a lot of the monks on WoL are rerolls from before the expansion even came out (I know at least 3 priests and a shaman rerolled monk, and I'm sure more did too).

Also, I like how people are !@#$%ing about how terrible priest utility is when PW:B is still the best raid cooldown in the game and Pain Suppression is one of the best tank cooldowns. What you're failing to realize is that monks (and druids) are almost pure throughput; both of our raid cooldowns are flat healing, while druids have a gimpy version of Pain Suppression (although admittedly with a longer duration) and monks have a gimpy, high-cooldown PW:S.

Do priests need buffs (and in Disc's case, some reworking)? Yes. But to call them useless is moronic.

PS. ^-*! your GM. If he's benching you for your class, he's an idiot.
To be fair, if you got replaced after a few pulls because raid was wiping simply to insufficient heal, replacing you with another healer class who has the potential to heal much higher is understandable. If you could have killed it, the problem wouldn't have presented itself. Do take note though, if they replaced you with a higher HPS healing class so they could heal stupid through damage that could have been avoided, they're gonna have sooooo much fun time wiping on heroic bosses.

As of now, priest has to play almost perfectly to come close to a "mediocre" healer of another class in terms of player's skill. Sure, there are still priests that are out there topping healing meter in their respective raid, but believe me, that's just because the other healers in the raid lack skill/gear/or proper knowledge of their healing class.

In a competitive raiding environment where most healer skills are roughly equal, priest HPS trails behind.

The only silver lining is that if my echo of light didn't overheal so much (which might not be the case in heroic raid mode), my HPS would be a lot higher. (50%+ overheal, and usually placed at no3 healing spell that follow closely behind the top two spells (varies from fight to fight). But who knows ...?


What is this, a bunch of threads written by bads complaining? What an effective argument. Considering how fast my guild was able to clear the normals this week with a Priest healer I fail to see how the class is benchworthy. Some problems? Sure, but skill and available utility overtakes that.


Disc could easily be helped with a 20% ish buff to PoH but yea priest do fall very short of all other healers in general

http://www.worldoflogs.com/

numbers dont lie. by all means look them over


I don't think PoH will fix our problems. AoE healing is just too damn strong in the current setup (PoH is multi target, but it isnt aoe). I think the simplest way to bring priests up to par would be to buff the 90 talents. Reduce their CDs and mana costs, increase their healing, and improve their mechanics. In particular, Halo suffers too much from diminishing returns on the number of players and scales too tightly to range, Cascade suffers from being an uncontrollable dumb heal (in 25, it heals everyone in 10), and Divine star... im not really sure how to improve that.
I decided to completely stay away from disc in a 10man environment. I did go disc on the DPS check fight.

I felt lots of strain on my mana as holy healing the 6 encounters. I was extremely competitive with my numbers though. Admittedly that is because i'm a try hard. Even pushing for more, and trying to conserve my mana i came into situations where i was completely screwed with my pool.

I believe that priests aren't getting carried. But they're at a huge disadvantage. I really do hope blizzard fixes this soon. My guild was extremely pleased with my performance as a healer despite current situations, Benching a priest just cause of their class is silly, lack of skill and management is another problem.
I don't PvE, but I feel your pain. I foresee much the same problems for PvP. We're a waste of a space on an RBG group right now.

I haven't been this depressed since the start of Cata, where disc was also horrible in PvP.
10/04/2012 08:00 PMPosted by Taheraliel
Oh and if the guild ever asks for you back just tell them that "We Are Never Ever (Evar, Evar, Evar) Getting Back Together. =P


I hate to go off topic, but I just can't get enough of that video. It's an amazing one shot where they build that city on the side of a set... the camera work is great. I don't think I would have thought much of the song, but now when I hear it... I'm thinking of the video and just smiling!

---

On topic though...

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/b60ezpg2u5ax78qk/

On Attempt #3, we got the guards down to 1%. Our Tanks and Healers have some good gear, but all in all, we're all undergeared. I was Holy and I spent some time with our Disc Priest after yesterday's (non-logged) attempts to help him get used to the changes. He did a lot better, but there's still plenty of room for improvement.

I was just shocked at how I was keeping up with our Druid. But if I wasn't careful, or our DPS wasn't careful, I could burst my mana away. So I felt (mind you, it's a feeling), that Holy is okay. If I can get my spirit past 7K raid buffed, flasked, and fooded, then I think I could be good enough for progression.

If we have our Resto Sham next week, then I may try Disc to see what kind of numbers I can pull out. Since the spec is so much tougher to play now, I want to see if I can actually do it. I just know that if our DPS gets better gear and shortens the length of the fight, I should be fine as Holy.

Do you do both Holy and Disc, or just Disc? I couldn't check because you posted on your DK.
While I cant agree with them. They seem to be looking at raw numbers. Priests and druids were always rivals. Granted we cant keep hots up like they can. But could sit there and spit it back at them. Because a raid night, they may not have a healer and would come crawling to you. So instead of joining them. Declare openly in the guild. Not behind whispers or party chat. Not even on vent. In guild chat while the other people are online and needing a healer.

"You said I was benched permanantly because my class can't compete with healing numbers. But why should I help out with one who would put someone from a different class in the moment they get on?" Then not join at all. If its the actual guild master. Not the assistant or a raid leader. you could always send a mail to them that your leaving to find a guild that would rather bring the player and not the class. and when they figure it out that you would be willing to come back then.

Most GM's should understand that. As class favoritism is stong. Monks are going to be op because they just came out. Kinks and proof isn't there yet. So no duh they have advantages.

Its like the yorsajh. Can do it with any tank, but a dk is your number one pick.

And if they can't value you healing them and having synergy with everyone else. And everything. Its then time you find a new place to go for the time being.

Maybe the other had rep grinded the right faction and has a gear advantage. Or heals proc their mastery far more which boosts them. Can't say for sure, but they could also look into disc priests being able to help with dps on a fight as well as healing.

By the way... You are getting 5 stacks to boost your healing by 25% right? And with 3 stacks of grace. You could make one massive shield on the tank. I am not even max level or near there. and I can crit on myself for almost 200k. Now with 41% shield from that. well. I am pretty safe.

But see what the other healers you were with feel about it. If they don't like it, i mean 5 freakign years of healing successfully with one another and they scrap you like that? Time for healers to stand together and the people you have been with for so long.
Remember, they benched him, they didn't gkick him or anything. If blizzard gets it's !@#$ together and brings priests up to where they can be as good as the other healers, he's probably first on the list to be brought back in.

If we were talking something trivial like a 5% difference, then I might agree the guild was in the wrong. Right now, it's something more like 20-50% less healing, and up to 75% less (1/4th) against monks, at which point I would rather be in a guild that took it's raid progression seriously enough to sit me, rather than be carried when it actually matters.
Remember, they benched him, they didn't gkick him or anything. If blizzard gets it's !@#$ together and brings priests up to where they can be as good as the other healers, he's probably first on the list to be brought back in.

If we were talking something trivial like a 5% difference, then I might agree the guild was in the wrong. Right now, it's something more like 20-50% less healing, and up to 75% less (1/4th) against monks, at which point I would rather be in a guild that took it's raid progression seriously enough to sit me, rather than be carried when it actually matters.


AFAIK, Zen Sphere has been fixed, which was massively inflating monk healing.

Monks (and basically every other non-priest healer) still scale better with raid size, but it's not going to be that massive of a difference anymore.
The OP is in a guild that sounds like it's going straight to heroic modes, passive-aggressive !@#$%ing is not going to fly there. It doesn't even sound like there was any negotiation. His performance on the first fight *was* the test, it confirmed what WOL was saying, and boom. Out until the class gets fixed. Yes, it's 2 days into the tier, but if they're going straight to heroic modes then any underperformance is going to be magnified even more.

WOL numbers aren't the end-all authority on class balance, I'd even guess that a large portion of monks are ex- disc priests skewing our numbers down. But they are a pretty good sign that something is wrong, and I find it awfully hard to believe it's an L2P problem, especially as holy.
10/04/2012 06:55 AMPosted by Tsilyi
We are not raid viable.. WoL is not perfect, but it cannot be that wrong... stop being a troll


not being a troll, we're 4/6 and while our priest isn't dominating meters, he is definitely competing. feng is just overwhelmingly favored towards monks and shaman. why is everyone who offers a differing opinion, a honest take and an actual experience a troll?

edit:
Sha of Anger


are you serious? does that even count for anything? no.


Could you post some logs? I'd like to see if your priest healer is doing something I haven't thought of.
I feel your pain. I've been encouraged to go shadow, or reroll monk.

Holy it takes going above and beyond just to overcome the stragglers, and we just don't bring what others do.

Disc (part of my emps performance was sitting with a stopwatch trying to sort when gas was coming to use spirit shell... which really was a wasted endeavor. I just spammed the tank)

We just don't compete. It's pretty bad right now.

I've decided I'm not rerolling. I'll take a few months off since every teir is a gear reset anyway, if this doesn't get fixed where one of our TWO healing specs is viable, or I decide I don't like shadowpriesting.

It's by design, to force us into monkdom. I refuse to play or be manipulated blizz. /wave.

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