Stop crying already.

Paladin
Ok guys, I've hung around on this board since MoP's release in hope that maybe some good guides would come up, and yes, a few have.
But most of all, you are all being freakin' babies. I'd go as far to say that about 70% of the threads made here post MoP has been a bunch of people crying their asses off because they feel ret is weak without CDs.
Im calling bull!@#$.
If anything, we should be thankful for the changes made to ret from cata to now.
I can pull upper-placement damage in BGs, and I'm wearing... Lets see, one piece of Dreadful. We're not bad, its the player, not the class. Sure, other classes have some imbalances that are bound to be fixed (Eyes BM hunters), but we're still a solid melee DPS. Now if we could move this board along, and start discussing playing the class, not how you dont want to play it because 'Blizzard ruined ret again', that would be great.
/haveaniceday
If you think this is bad be glad you werent here for the WoG nerf back in cata. My gear is still covered from all the salt from the oceans of tears that were cried.
You really must be new here? These same complaints crop up every damned time Blizz changes even one little thing about Retribution - or Paladins in general.

To be fair, though, Rets (at least in PvE, which is where my expertise lies) are highly dependent upon cooldowns; if a fight is no more than about two minutes long, we're akin to gods on the meters, but push that to three or more and we start to slide at a steady rate because we are designed and balanced around our burst - popping CDs whenever they're up doesn't really help because their true power is in being stacking.

But I do agree that the vast majority of complaints on these forums (which are frustratingly inundated with the threads) are due primarily to user error: people that can't juggle their Holy Power effectively, people crying about their DPS being low when they're not capped on hit or expertise or aren't even behind the boss, Templar's Verdict feeling weak when they're only looking at straight TV damage and not factoring in the resultant Hand of Light or Seal hits...You name, it's been complained about - and will be again. It's a vicious cycle, but, then, so is Blizz's constant nerfing of Paladins; you either roll with it and still beat the chumps, or you just become one and reroll.

EDIT: For the record, I'm not a chump that rerolled; the top hat is just too spiffy.
You win a cookie for not making a QQ thread.
You really must be new here? These same complaints crop up every damned time Blizz changes even one little thing about Retribution - or Paladins in general.

To be fair, though, Rets (at least in PvE, which is where my expertise lies) are highly dependent upon cooldowns; if a fight is no more than about two minutes long, we're akin to gods on the meters, but push that to three or more and we start to slide at a steady rate because we are designed and balanced around our burst - popping CDs whenever they're up doesn't really help because their true power is in being stacking.

But I do agree that the vast majority of complaints on these forums (which are frustratingly inundated with the threads) are due primarily to user error: people that can't juggle their Holy Power effectively, people crying about their DPS being low when they're not capped on hit or expertise or aren't even behind the boss, Templar's Verdict feeling weak when they're only looking at straight TV damage and not factoring in the resultant Hand of Light or Seal hits...You name, it's been complained about - and will be again. It's a vicious cycle, but, then, so is Blizz's constant nerfing of Paladins; you either roll with it and still beat the chumps, or you just become one and reroll.

EDIT: For the record, I'm not a chump that rerolled; the top hat is just too spiffy.


Any class in general. Though sometimes it's legit cries for balance.

Most of the time it's in the danger zone.
The reason so many here are crying is because it's true. Our damage has been nerfed into the ground.

We all pay a monthly fee to play this game. We have expectations that each class will be different but there will be a certain amount of balance. When every class can out damage us and when we cant kill equally skilled an geared players then something is wrong.

You are going to heard about it until they fix it.
Actually, all the forums look like this. Every forum (including Priest, Mage, Hunter and Warrior) is littered with people whining about how weak their class is and how strong everyone else's is. Go take a look.
Ummm.... Hey Baustert...

I have seen a DK tank, now.. this is a TANK mind you, pulling 50K DPS overall through the entire dungeon. (with 440 item level) Even the hunter and the mage were no where near those numbers. ( Around 31K each) I was on the bottom of the DPS meter. ( 22K ). Those are the overall numbers.

Doesn't that seem strange to you?

My advice to you.. Hit level 90, run heroics, and see where you stand. You may not like what you see.
Ummm.... Hey Baustert...

I have seen a DK tank, now.. this is a TANK mind you, pulling 50K DPS overall through the entire dungeon. (with 440 item level) Even the hunter and the mage were no where near those numbers. ( Around 31K each) I was on the bottom of the DPS meter. ( 22K ). Those are the overall numbers.

Doesn't that seem strange to you?

My advice to you.. Hit level 90, run heroics, and see where you stand. You may not like what you see.


Thats an issue with vengeance and tanks in general. Not ret.

PROOFS:

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/dps/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/Will_of_the_Emperor/25N/dps/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/Will_of_the_Emperor/25N/dps/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/The_Stone_Guard/10N/dps/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/The_Spirit_Kings/10N/dps/

Look at all the tanks, especially dks.
Okay, to anyone who is upset over any grevience Pallies might have at the moment, let me direct you to the priest forums where you can see just how truly good you have it at the moment.

Remember kids: "No matter how bad your class may seem at the start of an expansion, there is always Discipline."
Ummm.... Hey Baustert...

I have seen a DK tank, now.. this is a TANK mind you, pulling 50K DPS overall through the entire dungeon. (with 440 item level) Even the hunter and the mage were no where near those numbers. ( Around 31K each) I was on the bottom of the DPS meter. ( 22K ). Those are the overall numbers.

Doesn't that seem strange to you?

My advice to you.. Hit level 90, run heroics, and see where you stand. You may not like what you see.


I was 90 when I made the thread, the site had yet to update it.
As Celyndrashad stated, vengeance is a tank issue, nothing to do with ret being bad. At this point, the only real explanation I can think of for everyone babbying their asses off is that they have a rotation that doesn't work well in MoP. Know how we fix that?
Change the rotation.
And you guys need to all stop whining about us having poor steady damage. We are not supposed to have very good steady damage, RET IS BURST-BASED. The entire idea is that we beat peoples faces in every three minutes, but honestly, our normal stuff is good enough for me to still drop top damage in BGs just using Inq, and maybe wings once or twice.

Its the player, not the class.
BATTLE ROYALE
My only problem is casting Holy Spells all the time isn't what a Paladin is to me. I like being a Paladin and doing mostly Melee Attacks with Holy Damage. I don't mind some Holy spells in are arsenal(WHY YOU TAKE HOLY LIGHT BLIZZ). But keep DPS Paladins as mostly melee as most of it is me just casting spells ><

I know I'm a Paladin but most Melee abilities as Holy damage would be better IMO then spells all the time. This is for Ret not Holy. Holy can cast all the spells all they want >:)

EDIT: For my Rotation I mean -.-
Slight correction: the whining is almost all about PvP. Ret is a lot better in PvE now than it was in Cataclysm. Still not 100% perfect, but at least it's playable and puts up decent numbers. It was hardly playable in Cata after they changed Mastery at the last minute and never bothered coming up with a real fix. They finally did it now by having pretty every attack generate HP.
Ummm.... Hey Baustert...

I have seen a DK tank, now.. this is a TANK mind you, pulling 50K DPS overall through the entire dungeon. (with 440 item level) Even the hunter and the mage were no where near those numbers. ( Around 31K each) I was on the bottom of the DPS meter. ( 22K ). Those are the overall numbers.

Doesn't that seem strange to you?

My advice to you.. Hit level 90, run heroics, and see where you stand. You may not like what you see.


Thats an issue with vengeance and tanks in general. Not ret.

PROOFS:

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/dps/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/Will_of_the_Emperor/25N/dps/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/Will_of_the_Emperor/25N/dps/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/The_Stone_Guard/10N/dps/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/The_Spirit_Kings/10N/dps/

Look at all the tanks, especially dks.


Ok, we will go with your "proof". I can count on one hand the number of ret pallys in the top 10 in MV in your first link.. One in 10man, and one in LFR. Now try counting the other classes that are not tanks.

There may be one or two ret pallys that may have found that magic combination. I can almost bet that the other classes did not have to "Micro manage" their toons in order to reach the numbers that are unattainable to ret at the moment.

It's like 2 different people at work.. One works hard, learns everything about their job and never makes a mistake.. The other kinda knows their job and still gets paid more. Is that fair? It is only to the one who makes more money.
10/08/2012 03:37 PMPosted by Roahin
Actually, all the forums look like this.
Im just happy Ret isnt what it was like back in TBC and Vanilla.

You know? Non existent? A joke? Auto attack and Judgement?

People complain about 'being middle of the pack' or 'low on the dps meters'

Try not even being on the meters at all since ALL Paladins were Holy back in TBC and Vanilla.

It makes me cringe when people say "our damage has been nerfed into the ground and its the worst its ever been." No. Anything post Wrath will never be as bad as pre-Wrath-patch in TBC.
Well I could never be f'd to level another toon to 90 so ret all the way :>
It seems that Warriors and Paladins have switched spots this X-pack.

/tequila

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