Your Character and Self-Image

Moon Guard
*looks at thread*

No... Just no...

Vess is way to damn complex...

Not going to write a 20 page essay on her...

*groans and leaves*


I demand a doctoral thesis on all characters, pronto!
Since we're not talking about how our characters interact amongst one another, I think it would be fair to share Ferenold's opinions on Wynne, as you've done the same. I'm going to be operating mainly from his contrived personality now, that which imagines himself as the ressurrector of a romantic Gilneas.

For Ferenold at least, Wynne serves as something as a symbol in terms of what she represents, and I'm not going to deny that it has some decidedly romanto-sexual implications to it. By and large though, Ferenold has very few genuinely romantic feelings towards her, and it's moreso his tendency to generalize most of her behavior and depict her as something of a symbol.

And the symbol is of womanhood without the proper order; of a wild-lady of the forests, a hermit of the woods. She appears to have little to no connection to any nations or any country, and for the most part that's made Ferenold refer to her as pure spirit with absolutely no substance, in most of his journals and things of that nature. He of course finds that there's something admirable about that utopian vision, but he simultaneously believes that for any spirit to be fulfilled, some manner of nation-hood or ethnic paradigm is required for the individual to fit into.

Wynne decidedly lacks that, and it's caused Ferenold to look upon her as not his ideal druidic student, but mroeso a second-rate one that could exceed just as well with Kaldorei druidism then with the more earthy Gilnean practices. It's why he actually teaches Wynne a mixed curriculm, while Cygneya or someone like that would be taught solely Gilnean practices.

Ferenold's opinions on actually bringing her into Gilnean culture are mixed. While he believes that meeting gilneans would have a positive impact on the girl, he also would be suspicious of the girl calling herself a Gilnean or considering herself a Gilnean, because she's not. Ferenold does harbor some falsely held assumptions about the purity of Gilnean Blood as well as the Gilnean Race, and Gilnean culture might very well be beneficial to other nations- to a degree - they still shouldn't be calling themselves Gilneans.

Doing so would be harmful to the regeneration of the Gilnean Spirit.
10/10/2012 09:28 AMPosted by Systar
Oh mangs, you're going to get me talking about Wynne and Shennae. This is totes my favourite RP to think about atm. I'm fearful to share much OOC, because I'd hate to ruin the surprise. However, you shared so many interesting things, I feel like I should definitely reciprocate.


Oh, this oughta be fun! Shennae is on the whole quite personable, but seeing as she has seen the father to her child, her family and her daughter all vanish unexpectedly on her she's got the separation-anxiety thing going on. All this comes up very strongly in her social interactions because she is very touchy, self-conscious at times and expressive of her emotions.

I'm sure they'll have a neat dynamic because in spite of all this, growing up with eight siblings instills a good degree of tolerance in one-- she's liable to become very upset with people at times but within half an hour she's completely forgotten that she had resolved to be mad at them :D

*dances treant-style*
*looks at thread*

No... Just no...

Vess is way to damn complex...

Not going to write a 20 page essay on her...

*groans and leaves*


I demand a doctoral thesis on all characters, pronto!


Bite me!
I think I would eventually like to see a struggle of identity involving Ferenold and Wynne. I could eventually see her proclaiming herself as Gilnean and that bringing a lot of dismay to Fere. Whether she's accepted by the others will be left to RP. I think rejection would driver her further into the forest, metaphorically and physically.

I feel like Wynne is developing a deep love for Ferenold, not of a sexual nature. Though I would not completely rule out those feelings if they emerged. But, I think it's a connection with him because she sees him as her only friend. He is literally the only person she's connected with since she became a worgen. Her life is filled with self-loathing and spite, Fere was the one person who showed her a different path. I think there is a bond there, though obviously they both have different ideas of what that bond means. I'd like to chalk it up to Wynne's naivety and play her as if she were blind to it all.

Shennae, it seems like you have an amazing grasp on social interactions. Your writing alone is indicative of a roleplayer with a very attuned emotional intelligence. That reflects well in your character and I think the difference between the two is going to be a really great thing to RP out. I'm very excited about it.



I demand a doctoral thesis on all characters, pronto!


Bite me!


I bite hard, ask Lellex.
I think I would eventually like to see a struggle of identity involving Ferenold and Wynne. I could eventually see her proclaiming herself as Gilnean and that bringing a lot of dismay to Fere. Whether she's accepted by the others will be left to RP. I think rejection would driver her further into the forest, metaphorically and physically.

I feel like Wynne is developing a deep love for Ferenold, not of a sexual nature. Though I would not completely rule out those feelings if they emerged. But, I think it's a connection with him because she sees him as her only friend. He is literally the only person she's connected with since she became a worgen. Her life is filled with self-loathing and spite, Fere was the one person who showed her a different path. I think there is a bond there, though obviously they both have different ideas of what that bond means. I'd like to chalk it up to Wynne's naivety and play her as if she were blind to it all.

Shennae, it seems like you have an amazing grasp on social interactions. Your writing alone is indicative of a roleplayer with a very attuned emotional intelligence. That reflects well in your character and I think the difference between the two is going to be a really great thing to RP out. I'm very excited about it.


*Busts out the popcorn for Ferewynnold dramz*

It's funny you should say that, Sys, since IRL I have the emotional capacity of a turnip. I'll chalk it up to my deep appreciation for social psychology and symbolic interactionism. Which, as I pondered it while folding laundry, brings me to a clearer point of understanding of Shennae.

If they say that self-esteem is the outcome of the differences between one's ideal self and their self-image, that accounts for Shennae's generally healthy self-esteem to a good degree. Putting it into these terms, well, Shennae is a lower-class farm girl hailing from a large litter of bumpkin-kids. I would venture to say that she has developed no independent self-ideals since her value as a person has always depended on her ability to pull her own weight. Further, her parent's thin-spread attention to their children would have largely discouraged the development of individualist personalities among her siblings, as each child sees themself as one of the bunch. Among themselves, the other children would have seen each other not as 'Shennae', or 'Connor', or 'Donnie' but rather as 'the one who brings home dinner', 'the one to tell when there is trouble', 'the one who takes care of the washing', etcetera.

For this reason, Shennae doesn't really have a self-image or an ideal self that stands independently of her relaitonships (arguably, nobody does but in this case it's more extreme). She simply views herself in accordance to her role, for instance as 'Natale's friend', 'Callie's mother', 'the girl who traps the game', 'Ferenold's lover'. If she fulfills these roles satisfactorily (at least in her own estimation), then bingo, everything's kosher. Her self-esteem is constituted of very few qualities (ie attractiveness, status, wealth, intelligence), except where she is aware she is being judged on such a basis by others. Naturally, she would not evaluate herself on this basis of her own accord.

In my judgement, this psychology really helps me execute her as both a realistic peasant-class character and a happy individual (hmm-- perhaps that's why they didn't need Valium in the 19th century!). I feel like it's very much the mindset of women at the time, of Shennae's class at least.
10/10/2012 10:07 AMPosted by Systar
I bite hard, ask Lellex.


Don't bite and tell.

/vampire RP
Bumping cause the responses are interesting.
10/10/2012 04:52 PMPosted by Shennae
Bumping cause the responses are interesting.
Back on Silver Hand, there was this morbidly obese trader.

He was the jolliest mother!@#$er I've ever seen in roleplay.
My personal self-esteem is pretty good, although my self-image is... unique. Is it possible to have a self-image that is simultaneously terrible and egotistic?

My characters vary wildly. I've played very self-confident characters, and I've played characters who are running from their pasts.

Most of my characters seem to be insane to some extent, or to have some form of PTSD now that I think about it, although I didn't write them with PTSD in mind.
10/10/2012 08:29 PMPosted by Talothas
Is it possible to have a self-image that is simultaneously terrible and egotistic?


I'd hope so, for my own character's realism.

It starts with his roots, He was born to a "woman of the night" most likely, out of wedlock, and given up to a children's home so the woman could salvage some of her reputation without a bastard at her heels in Hearthglen. Kadrick always had a really awkward personality, so naturally, he'd get teased by the other stronger and larger children. The plagues rolling around really traumatized him a good amount as I'm sure it would any -adult-, he was only 8 at the time it started.

Further impacting this event was the Scarlet Crusade's shift to a more militaristic and strongly religious-driven "Society", Kadrick had been heavily involved with the church and was fully accepting to some individuals in the Glen trying to make him into an Inquisitor due to the emerging of his gift as well, Empathy. He desperately wanted to be a priest, but for some reason, the Light never came to him.. Fire did. They tried to turn him into a great inquisitor, but they refused to fully accept him unless he used the Light in his work, despite how good at it he would've been due to his ability to mentally influence peoples' emotions, even dig around in their head. Bad.

He was brainwashed likely more than most Scarlets, it was practically literally beaten into him that he is nothing without the grand movement and if he stops trying to give it his all, he's as good as the shamblers outside the city perimeters. A waste of resources. He still struggles with being anything less than completely selfless even now, and he's been liberated for a good few years now. Part of him, that unhealthy, brainwashed part, is extremely submissive. He struggles with these 'parts' of himself, because he's gotten pretty good at fooling himself into believing he's truly happy when other people tell him what to say/do/think even if it's an atrocity. Even if it has him forgetting what he's come to love after tasting freedom in Stormwind.

He'll likely never get over some aspects of himself, the negative ones, but he's learning that freedom and independence are a good thing. Expression, opinion, holding ones' own values, he's starting to take on these traits and opening up to others.

There's still just this hidden side inside him that wants nothing more than to be controlled, comforted and commanded, though. (Take that as you will! But there's a lot more to it than just bedroom play. It extends past that, he thinks he wants something akin to that for his -life-.) Chaos, like big city life in Stormwind, frightens him. He'll likely always prefer a more commanded, structured society, but he's coming to not loathe himself so much for becoming more passionate, more vibrant and independent. It comes out more when he's stressed, he'll fall back into his sheep ways and become very malleable for a time. During these episodes, he hates himself for the headstrong, petulant and unthankful youth that he is. (Mostly involving speaking up about his feelings, saying no, or thinking he deserves credit for the amazing things he's done for BroHo.)

As of late, the bad sides of himself have been pretty dormant. He's been given leadership of Brotherhood of the Dawn, and he's relying heavily on his brothers to make sure he doesn't start corrupting them all by leading them like Scarlets would, because it's all he knows. He's terrified of having power. He was much more comfortable at Liucen's side, where he could have someone telling him what to do. He's not an AWFUL leader, but being protected/bound by laws and authority is something that's extremely important to his comfort levels.
I guess this would be the benefit to playing a feral, the wolf among men. Dusk...doesnt see things the way a human or humanoid would. In his world, strength is earned, and each member of the pack proves their individual strengths by action, not word. Its not an exaggeration, because the fruits of a feral's strength are visible.

The strongest hunter catches the best prey, and leads hunts well. The strongest mystic has the best honed natural gift. The greatest alpha proves his or her leadership by leading and making decisions to help the pack flourish. The best teacher of pups is one who can coach and teach the youngsters with the best results. These are results that can be measured. A worgen pack, like the wolves they stem from, has all the social intricacies of a pack, with its fluid yet sturdy structure. Even the lowest in a pack is lowest for a reason that is measurable. They are usually young, new, old, or in someway hindered from raising further. They dont want to be lowest? Best to challenge and win then.

In the grove, this is even more true. He is alpha of those who guard, answering only to the appointed Guardian of the Grove--who also happens to be his mate. He's the pack mystic, he's one of the few born a worgen. He dispenses wolf wisdom, aids the sick, the injured and the suffering....He is a decent hunter in his own right, bringing home not just food for his mate and children, but also with enough to store, and to help feed the hungry visitors and guardians. (Granted, everyone hunts, but...its a community pile) He's strong enough to help defend the grove alongside his pack, friends, and guardians...

Because he measures his worth in his own capabilities, the things he can do, and feel, and accomplish, and because he realizes--again, in the way of a wolf--that the pack is strong because of the strengths of each one, and each are strong because the pack balances strengths and weaknesses...he has no issues with esteem.

He gets ticked with people who treat him like he's lesser, or an animal...mostly because its annoying, not because its an ego blow. Then he just hands them over to his Kaldorei mate.Val doesnt like stuck up jerks.

Worst part is...he was never meant to be an alpha. Or anyone important. He was my escape and chill character.
Tough to say. I think perhaps Tadkins' self-esteem is around medium to low.

She's rather shy and socially awkward, and would usually rather hide in a corner somewhere during an event than approach people.
Baenhoof plays herself off as a loud, fearless and cocky fighter. She's aggressive, she'll laugh loudly & often, chest-thump and get into pissing contests all day if you let her.
But that's not who she really is.
Baen puts up so many walls around her insecurities and anything about her that could even remotely be called weak that nobody ever gets to see what she's like underneath all that armour.
The loudness, the aggression, and the swagger all act as both intimidation tactics and diversions. Baen, in truth, hates herself more than anyone ever could.
She blames herself for everyone she's ever lost. She knows she's stupid and she hates it. She's terrible at just about everything but taking lives. She feels disjointed and disconnected from her people as a whole and from her ancestors. She prays daily, she asks for guidance, for help, and they never say a word to her. She knows it's because she isn't good enough. She's disgraced them somehow.
She thought that what she wanted was to leave the Horde and the endless fighting behind and start a family or at least try and salvage one, but it took maybe ten months before she realized she missed the fighting, and she hates that as well.

So yeah. Gigantic difference between portrayed outer self-worth and actual inner self-worth for Baen. :U
Sounds like Baenhoof and Tadkins need to meet.
10/11/2012 04:18 AMPosted by Tadkins
Sounds like Baenhoof and Tadkins need to meet.

Sounds like Baen needs a nice long sit on the chair of that undead therapist NPC (forgetting the name) in Hillsbrad!
Vhelrillon is as cocky as you might expect a blood elf to be


Fix'd
Self-image is unimportant to Aldreon. Or at least, that's what he tells himself. Beasts don't look at themselves and say, "hey, I'm a total jerk to people sometimes. I'm overweight, I smell bad, my hair is too long, etc. etc." My dog doesn't care about what clothes he's wearing, or how much of a slob he looks when he eats his kibbles 'n' bits.
 
Sometimes I think the only time Aldreon ever portrays anything but the mannerisms of a beast is out of necessity. He operates on a very different morale compass than the rest of the world, or even other druids. Not to say he's a cold-blooded killer at heart, he isn't, but he doesn't believe in conventional morales because they aren't prevalent in nature. Society created the morales which we all abide by, and those morales simply don't apply to Aldreon.
I keep trying to articulate how Ferenold affects Shennae's self-image but I just come up scratching my head ><

I suppose that where a more independent, individualistic woman might feel belittled or put down by Ferenold's antiquated, kind of chauvinistic approach toward women, Shennae sees it as a last refuge in a world where she is sorely outpaced by modernization. I'd like to think that rather than the wilful, independent type that we see in Elizabeth in Pride and Prejudice, Shennae's personality conforms much more with the quintessential submissive, loyal wife of medieval europe. She, in a sense, views her own psychology as an extension of that of her lover's. While, by modern standards, this seems like unhealthy dependency, for Shennae it is simply the way of life from where she hails.

I'm going back to that little equation, [Self Esteem] = [Ideal Self] + [Self Image]. Now that I think of it, Ferenold's vision of the ideal 'Shennae' has very smoothly co-opted Shennae's previous vision of the ideal 'Shennae', so that rather than seeking to equate her self-image with her own ideal self, she now strives to equate it with that of Ferenold's ideal 'her'.

For this reason, she is more averse to bringing shame to Ferenold than she is to herself. This becomes an issue where although she has come to grips with the fact that she is a lower-class unwed mother, she attempts to hide that fact from others for fear that they might think less of Ferenold for courting a woman such as herself.

On the whole, however, I would say that Ferenold has had a positive effect on Shennae's self-esteem. Wherever she sees (or it is pointed out to her) that her image does not conform to Ferenold's ideal for her, she simply changes to rectify the balance. Naturally, she responds quite well to Ferenold's idealization and poeticization (yeahhh, that's totally not a legit word, I know) of her because it clicks well with the standards people such as her family and community have set for her in the past. Where she was sort of a lost and anxious 'island' in the period between losing her family and meeting up with the Order, she is now back in her element, a simple, communal lifestyle, and thriving in spite of all the tragedies she has seen.

I hope that makes any sense at all; I still feel like I haven't quite grasped it and I'm only on my first cup of coffee D:

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