So what are Justice Points for?

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jp gear needs to be = or better ...prob = to heroic gear...that way you can mix and match...this system im just converting all my jp's too honor... whether their 450 or 458 dosnt matter at all. And its sooooo easy to gear up to get into heroics you dont need jp gear
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No one seems to have mentioned it in this thread, or perhaps I missed it during my read through, but the threshold to enter Heroic dungeons has been reduced to 435 from 440, and the item level of Justice Point gear has gone up to 458 from 450.

Edited: I noticed that a number of posters in the thread have been operating on the assumption that Justice Point gear is still item level 450.


Um, you didn't read the thread if you didn't see that multiple times... and the frustration that nevertheless both dungeons and PvP are being EXTREMELY gated to prevent access to the highest level content in MoP in a way that wasn't the case for Cata.

Personally I find it particularly offensive that honor gear is the same level as justice gear and no longer epic. That's a huge kick in the balls for PvPers from Cata. Now as for the balance between justice and epic, I can't say, except to say that prolly the gear from both PvP and justice should be higher and epic as it was in Cata.
Again, in a way, it is useful. It might not be the same use as it was before, but it is in fact useful. If anything, make JP convertible to VP(Not much VP, however, as that would defeat the purpose of low VP per quest/dungeon). Lowering the iLvl of anything will just make it too easy.

As I stated before, another alternative is lowering Vaults only to 460-461, since then you could have 2-3 jp pieces and still get in.

Also, just going to throw this out there. I have a 450 chest, 458 legs, and 458 ring, and are still at the 463 iLvl needed to run LFR. Granted, my boots are 474, but these are a quest reward, just as there are quest rewards of 474 necklaces and I believe chests. In cases like these, JP gear IS useful. See where I'm coming from?


I think your definition of "useful" and my definition of "useful" are two wildly different things.

Sure, it may be useful to you. But what the OP is pointing out is that, to a lot of people, it's not useful at all. Just because it's useful to you in one specific situation doesn't mean it's useful to anyone else. It should be useful to everyone, and it's not. They should fix that.

Also, I do not know of any quest rewards that offer an ilvl 476 chest or necklace. And I've completed every quest in every zone except for Jade Forest.
10/03/2012 11:57 PMPosted by Chopsuzy
Pretty much all I'm reading in this thread (and like every other thread on this forum) is how people are just too damn greedy and want "free" epics handed to them. You heard it folks, justice points don't fill the same role they used to. Which means you either buy crafted 463 gear, or epics, or you do dailies, OR keep running heroics till you get lucky! That's how it is and you need to just accept it. I am glad they made it so it's harder to just hit 90 and within hours be in LFR... It shoudn't even be that way.
Utterly asinine. It is the way it is because Blizzard changed, and they have ALREADY made changes to revert some of those design decisions. They have also stated outright in this very thread that they are listening to feedback, so expect more changes.

The whole "free epics" argument is, and always has been, the most asinine floating around the forums. Whether they are epics or not is completely arbitrary, it makes no real difference to performance. What they OFFERED with the promise of mop was more OPTIONS to gear up and progress. What they DELIVERED was more REQUIREMENTS to gear up and progress efficiently (which is what most players want to do - and those that don't have less options and slower speed available to them when compared to previous expansions).

They described one thing, and delivered a system that was almost paradigmatically opposite to what they described.
10/04/2012 02:33 AMPosted by Delekii
Pretty much all I'm reading in this thread (and like every other thread on this forum) is how people are just too damn greedy and want "free" epics handed to them. You heard it folks, justice points don't fill the same role they used to. Which means you either buy crafted 463 gear, or epics, or you do dailies, OR keep running heroics till you get lucky! That's how it is and you need to just accept it. I am glad they made it so it's harder to just hit 90 and within hours be in LFR... It shoudn't even be that way.
Utterly asinine. It is the way it is because Blizzard changed, and they have ALREADY made changes to revert some of those design decisions. They have also stated outright in this very thread that they are listening to feedback, so expect more changes.

The whole "free epics" argument is, and always has been, the most asinine floating around the forums. Whether they are epics or not is completely arbitrary, it makes no real difference to performance. What they OFFERED with the promise of mop was more OPTIONS to gear up and progress. What they DELIVERED was more REQUIREMENTS to gear up and progress efficiently (which is what most players want to do - and those that don't have less options and slower speed available to them when compared to previous expansions).

They described one thing, and delivered a system that was almost paradigmatically opposite to what they described.


Um yes, Blizz lied, in summary. It's disappointing. Let's not penalize casual PvE and PvP players as they have thus far.
I've read all the blue responses in this forum but your not answering the bigger issue here. JP are useless in this expansion.

The highest ilevel item you can buy with JP is 458, LFR requires 463. LFR should require a higher number then what you can get from just JP. The issue now becomes that the heroic dungeons only drop ilevel 463. What this means, and its not hard to do the math, its pretty basic elementary math, go ask any grade school teacher, If you require 463 ilevel gear to to start LFR, and the highest level you can obtain from doing the build up dungeons is 463, that means you need to have all your gear slots filled with ilevel 463.

Since spending JP will not get you to ilvl463 now matter how much gear you buy of it, it now becomes pointless. What needs to be done is LFR needs to come down to 460. This requires you to have heroic level gear but if you can't get that one item to drop, and your still running with a 429 in that slot, you can purchase a 458 JP item, to get to that 460 ilevel to start LFR.

Now you can make the argument that professions allow you to make the 476 epic items. That would be the case and you make a valid one if you have one of those professions, but as a DK, being a flower picker and making glyphs, I have no epics I can use to fill those slots. Some toons have two gathering professions so they don't make any gear.

Its not JP, or the gear that needs to be changed its the ilevel required for LFR that needs to be changed. Once your in LFR your earning valor and gear, so JP is useless. As its been stated JP is there to help you fill in that slot where the random drop is not working in your favor, but since the ilevel is to low to do any good, its pointless.
I think Blizzard are finally listening to the community though, the fact that I only needed to get honored with Klaxxi to get a valor necklace was a huge relief. Having to grind and grind to get gear is alright on one toon, but having to do it on all your alts takes the fun out of the game.
10/04/2012 03:01 AMPosted by Tsock
Since spending JP will not get you to ilvl463 now matter how much gear you buy of it, it now becomes pointless. What needs to be done is LFR needs to come down to 460.


Honestly I'd suggest just raising the gear to the appropriate level - instead of Blizz's strategy of lowering gear levels.

Blizz is lowering gear levels to drag out the grind in MoP because they aren't prepared to introduce new, exciting content over time. There's no other reason to extend the grind.

Honestly I'd suggest just raising the gear to the appropriate level - instead of Blizz's strategy of lowering gear levels..


Raising JP gear level does nothing for the game besides allowing people to skip heroics. Then whats the point in them? JP gear level is good at 458, the ilevel required for LFR needs to be lowered so you can have a mixture of Heroic and JP gear.

I'm not asking for the gear level to change. I'm suggest the required level of LFR to change.
If you need JP and don't have the gear from questing to hit heroics when you ding 90, you did something wrong.
10/04/2012 03:38 AMPosted by Kudí
If you need JP and don't have the gear from questing to hit heroics when you ding 90, you did something wrong.


Sorry, not all of us have one set of gear for all three specs that we want to play in the PvE portion of the game. Try harder.
There is one vender in town-long steppes to buy Jp gear. and the selection is limited to say the least. The other venders are locked behind honored reputation requirement.
Edit: Klaxxi maybe? again, limited selection.

I'm now IL 361 and got there having not used even ONE piece of JP gear. And why would I assuming there was easier access to JP gear in the first place, you don't even need JP to que heroics!!

Pretty awesome stuff there Blizz. So really! What is JP for? What are we gonna do with all that JP we get in heroics? buy lower IL stuff than what drops in the heroics we're running? Are you guys completely off your rockers?
IS this a tripple AAA dev? I used to think so.
If you need JP and don't have the gear from questing to hit heroics when you ding 90, you did something wrong.


Sorry, not all of us have one set of gear for all three specs that we want to play in the PvE portion of the game. Try harder.

He speaks the truth though. If you didn't have enough forethought to make a MS set...that's on you. You can literally ding 90, and que heroics.
10/03/2012 08:56 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I bet this came about from one of the meetings where you get input from the other blizzard teams. Seems like this cross team strategy is working out well.


Sarcasm aside, Blizzard always operates in a spirit of cooperation.

I'm sure that many of you recall the days before Valor and Justice. You'll recall that before there were points there were badges. Before that, there was nothing. Many of us remember the days when you could spend upwards of an hour in a single dungeon, and come away from it without a single drop: not a even an Uncommon. We try new things. A lot of the time they work well. We're not always right, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes what ultimately ends up being a good change for the overall World of Warcraft experience doesn't seem so great at first: there was a significant segment of the player base that railed heavily against the idea of purchasable dungeon quality gear, let alone raid quality gear, period.

We've come a long way since then, and we'll see where this shakes out together. Again, your feedback is an important part of that.


Cataclysm sucked, but their JP systemw as fine. If you didnt have luck with your drops in heroic, you could fill the gaps missing with EQUIVALENT gear.
The same with Valor and raid RNG.

You wrecked a system that was fine. Maybe someday in the future you will understand it.

Honestly I'd suggest just raising the gear to the appropriate level - instead of Blizz's strategy of lowering gear levels..


Raising JP gear level does nothing for the game besides allowing people to skip heroics. Then whats the point in them? JP gear level is good at 458, the ilevel required for LFR needs to be lowered so you can have a mixture of Heroic and JP gear.

I'm not asking for the gear level to change. I'm suggest the required level of LFR to change.


How will you skip heroics with JP gear if JP comes from heroic dungeons?

You skip the endless search for that last item that you need and refuses to drop to move on.
It doesn't matter whether they upped jp gear ilvl or lowered lfr ilvl, at one point or another (much sooner than it should) JP will become useless if the only thing they're giving us to spend it on is gear. If JP has no value people stop running heroics or start playing the "drop group when the 1 thing I need is over" game. The real issue is that we need some tradeskill materials or SOH or SOMETHING other than just gear (heirlooms qualifying as gear also).

There has to be a reward to keep people in the LFD system for that system to work properly, and since that system is now a very vital part of so much of the community's gearing process it is imperative that that system is still working properly. Especially tanks and healers need a reason to keep running, or those queue times will get mighty long again.
It doesn't matter whether they upped jp gear ilvl or lowered lfr ilvl, at one point or another (much sooner than it should) JP will become useless if the only thing they're giving us to spend it on is gear. If JP has no value people stop running heroics or start playing the "drop group when the 1 thing I need is over" game. The real issue is that we need some tradeskill materials or SOH or SOMETHING other than just gear (heirlooms qualifying as gear also).

There has to be a reward to keep people in the LFD system for that system to work properly, and since that system is now a very vital part of so much of the community's gearing process it is imperative that that system is still working properly. Especially tanks and healers need a reason to keep running, or those queue times will get mighty long again.


Being able to trade JP for SOH would give them a meaning again, btu as they are now, they are useless.
Don't worry everyone, I am sure Blizzard has someone counting subscription losses from this already and has already decided to fix it.
Now they just have to do it without losing too much credibility.

I for one have not bought MOP yet, or renewed my subscription because of these issues.
Admitted, I am but one account, and on my own not worth much.

But multiply that by a few thousand, and the accountants start getting worried.
I for one am loving the new expansion and the way Justice Points are used to fill in gear and not just a way to gear up your character. I have been playing since vanilla and feeling is one thing that has been missing since justice points came to be. There was no more disappointment or excitement when an item dropped, It was simply I need this many more points to get my gear piece i need.

It actually takes some time invested to get the returns that you want. They feel more deserved after you obtain them. It really doesn't take all that much time and it wouldnt be any fun if you were geared up in the first 2 weeks of the game with nothing else to do.
Moreover it further makes the case that once you've done "enough" dungeons to be kitted out with, say, 70% 363 gear, and have earned enough justice to buy some stopgaps, there is little incentive to keep running the dungeons.


In reality, that's no different from how Justice worked before, except the process would occur faster then. In the early days of Cataclysm, for example, between dungeon drops and Justice Point gear, active tanks (and to a lesser extent healers) very rapidly loaded up on all the tanking gear they could carry, filled out dps sets, loaded up on Heirlooms, then walked away from dungeons without looking back.

There are potential down sides to any system.


But this isn't really true.

During Cataclysm, tanks and healers used their justice points to load up on sets DURING the same time they were running the heroic dungeons. They were running the heroic dungeons, getting loot from them, and filling in the holes with Justice gear.

Now, once they are in heroic dungeons, justice gear instantly becomes sub-par. Justice is not good enough to use to set up a heroic-level offset, and it's not good enough to sufficiently fill in the holes created by back drop luck.

That'st he difference. It is a currency that drops in heroic dungeons, primarily, yet doesn't yield heroic-level rewards.

It's like you guys decided to do it this way out of some reverence of how much better "drops" are than purchasing gear from a vendor. I don't know what other reason there is for this change.

EDIT: Not to mention VP rewards from heroics were good enough for them to be continuously attractive to tanks and healers.

I would say tanks and healers are more likely now than ever to move on, as once they are geared up from heroic-level loot, heroics don't offer much else in the way of an incentive.

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