So what are Justice Points for?

General Discussion
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Thanks for the (admittedly off-topic) response.

Has there been discussion about potentially making an updated Trade Goods JP vendor?


I think would alleviate a lot of concerns about JP being worthless. It won't address the concerns of people not being able to catch up to raid later on, but it would make my personal life easier.


pretty much this ^ blizz atleast spirit of harmonys on the vendor for jp would get rid of the complaints
10/04/2012 10:29 AMPosted by Kuatainko
its called normal dungeons, i had 440 ilvl before i hit 90.


Part of the discussion, if you go back and read, mentioned getting rid of poorly itemized gear.

For instance I didn't take items from quests that had no spirit especially when the int was barely an upgrade from the heroic DS gear.

For some classes I'm sure it worked fine but for others not so much.
10/03/2012 11:32 AMPosted by Kaels
Prior to this hotfix, JP could have had a purpose: to be converted to Honor. But now both the Honor and the JP gear are sitting 5 item levels below the minimum gear requirement for the first LFR instance.


Why would PVP gear ilvl be a factor at all? No one's using Heroic level gear to farm JP to convert to Honor to buy PVP gear to queue for LFR. That makes no sense.

Just as it was from before, you can use the surplus of your points from the side of the game you play most and use it to get starter gear in the side you may want to dabble in. So yes, you can still convert JP to HP and buy a full set of PVP gear and use it for its designd purpose, PVP.

Same goes for the other side of the coin. The PVP community can use their surplus HP to get JP and buy PVE gear if they want to try some entry-level PVE content.

TL;DR - There is no ilvl restriction for PVP.
10/04/2012 10:33 AMPosted by Sidney
its called normal dungeons, i had 440 ilvl before i hit 90.


Part of the discussion, if you go back and read, mentioned getting rid of poorly itemized gear.

For instance I didn't take items from quests that had no spirit especially when the int was barely an upgrade from the heroic DS gear.

For some classes I'm sure it worked fine but for others not so much.


lol I leveled after 87 in dungeons exclusively... still had to craft the entire pvp set to get into heroics.
I don't understand why LFR would have the same gear requirements as a normal raid. I am expecting all of the raiders in my group to be at 463 or higher since the logical gear flow is Quest rewards -> Normal Dungeons -> Heroic Dungeons -> Normal Raids -> Heroic Raids.

Why on earth would you set the standard for LFR to be the same as a Normal raid when it isn't meant for Normal/Heroic raiders?
Trying to wrack my brain and remember, but is this the first time that JP items are actually worse than the current dungeon/heroic dungeon gear?
10/04/2012 10:45 AMPosted by Maagguss
Trying to wrack my brain and remember, but is this the first time that JP items are actually worse than the current dungeon/heroic dungeon gear?


Uhh, JP was introduced in cata, so that's hardly a surprise, although you can draw analogies in wotlk.

In wotlk base points were equal to normal mode raids and heroics (which dropped gear of the same ilvl).

Cata changed that.

Mop changed it again.

BC only had 1 currency, and BC was the introduction to this sort of system.
10/04/2012 10:46 AMPosted by Mescyn
Trying to wrack my brain and remember, but is this the first time that JP items are actually worse than the current dungeon/heroic dungeon gear?


Uhh, JP was introduced in cata, so that's hardly a surprise.


The answer to his question is: yes.

While JP were introduced in cataclysm, the badges in Wrath had gear available that was equal or better than the heroic drops.
10/04/2012 10:46 AMPosted by Mescyn
Trying to wrack my brain and remember, but is this the first time that JP items are actually worse than the current dungeon/heroic dungeon gear?


Uhh, JP was introduced in cata, so that's hardly a surprise.


He would clealy be including badges.
10/04/2012 10:45 AMPosted by Maagguss
Trying to wrack my brain and remember, but is this the first time that JP items are actually worse than the current dungeon/heroic dungeon gear?


Yes. This is true even if you count back when JP was emblems of triumph. In fact, in those days, triumph gear was significantly better than heroic gear.

This is a complete about-face from the traditional design.
I'd like to see how some of you guys survived in classic if you played back then.
10/04/2012 10:49 AMPosted by Peverell


Uhh, JP was introduced in cata, so that's hardly a surprise.


He would clealy be including badges.


They've changed the power of them in every single expansion. The power has not been consistent at all.

It's gone from raid/heroic 10m equiv gear, to heroic (but not 10m) equiv gear to slightly weaker than heroic equiv gear (and still not 10m equiv).

JP didn't really exist in bc; VP is the closest equiv to BC badges.
It's not worth spending points on subpar items that don't help you progress at all.

JP items are a gear regression.

Since when has WoW ever been about regression? It's always been about progressing.

I bet this came about from one of the meetings where you get input from the other blizzard teams. Seems like this cross team strategy is working out well.


I think they listened to many who made Diablo 3. I'm still glad I didn't buy that game.
This xpac is trying to artificially extend the life of content by making the grind more frustrating than even bc (yes back in bc heroics would reward you with rep for a certain faction). This xpac seems to be just rewarding time sinks with people at the mercy of random rng with no way to offset this. Even if I was going to buy 458 ilvl pants as a "stop gap" that wont help me raise my item lvl for lfr no tank pants exist on the vendor I would have to buy a pair of dps pants and tank with them. There is good game design.

Yes the xpac has only been out one week but this problem is only going to get worse once more people hit 90 and when lfr drops and many who dont know what the requirement is to get in are locked out.
- casuals who lfr is aimed at cant get in but raiders who got 1 or 2 drops week 1 of normal mode will.
-how does this stick with the goal of not making normal mode raiders do lfr and encourage it to be used by casuals?
-xpac has been out for a week but bad game design is bad game design.

Please name a boss that pugs have trouble with these days.


Armsmaster Harlan
10/04/2012 10:52 AMPosted by Throlus
I'd like to see how some of you guys survived in classic if you played back then.


I played classic and just because it was a hellacious grind to do anything doest make it better. you sound like someones grandfather telling us how you used to walk up hill both ways to school. The game has made PROGRESS to be less grind and more user friendly with content aimed at all levels of players. this xpac so far is a step back to an old and flawed way of progress that the game had naturally evolved out of over several expansions.

-LFR requires a higher ilvl than normal mode = bad game design
-Earning a currency in heroics than reward items that are useless once you are in heroics = bad game design.
10/04/2012 10:52 AMPosted by Throlus
I'd like to see how some of you guys survived in classic if you played back then.


This adds nothing to the discussion. Vanilla was years ago, and as nostalgic as I get for it sometimes, it was flawed in ways too numerous to count. The game has progressed leaps and bounds since then.

Sepharoth exaggerates a tad-we haven't gone back to the Stone Age with this current system and the sky is not falling. There just need to be better and more diversified rewards for the JP currency. For a couple days before the rep req was lowered, I was doing roics and completely JP capped. It wasn't a good feeling to leave a roic with no loot or JP. A trades good vendor with SoH at a high JP price would be an excellent JP sink that would keep those of us who are LFR ready running roics even after valor capping.
You should go see my thread http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794709484 , Mists JP gear needs to be ilvl463. At the beginning of cata you could purchase justice gear that was ilvl346, same as heroic blues. It only makes sense that you should be able to get the same equivalence with justice in mists.
For those who weren't aware, Drax's earlier comment about rep has been addressed in a new blue post (it is also up on mmo-champ). That's tangentially related to this discussion here, though.
10/04/2012 10:29 AMPosted by Kuatainko
its called normal dungeons, i had 440 ilvl before i hit 90.

Whats your point?

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