PvP stances with gear etc.

I obviously am not fully geared yet, but from PvPing last night with 4 dreadful peices and basically rest contender pieces I noticed I was literally being slammed into the ground in seconds with anything more than 2 dps on me at once (especially shadow priests/mages/warlocks) which obviously we are more susceptible to damage wise anyways.

This was while using battle stance, so I switched and after a time of using full time defensive stance it seemed like I was able to at least hold my ground (the rage starving was an issue though, I could only seem to get a kill sometimes....others it was just stalemating 2v1 until backup came or just prolonging death).

I guess my main question is does this seem to get better for those warriors with full dreadful?

I am already hearing so many complaints against second wind primarily(ironic enough given its likely only like 6-7k more dps....equavalent to 2-3k more dps at 85 to down us....which seems so pathetically easy I don't understand the complaints)

This kind of scares me for an incoming change, since our healing talents section is honestly abysmal...especially compared to most other classes....
To note I wouldn't mind a change of second wind to say 1-2% every second under 35% if it had a proponent above the 35% range as well.....but probably wishful thinking.

Secondarily our dmg (all burst in 5 minute windows....but sadly I sense incoming nerf of sorts).
It just seems that if I am already forced into defensive for survival with roughly 50% damage reduction through resillience that even full gearing won't deter the insane amounts of damage from coming in and forcing me to rely on defensive stance when facing more than 1 dps at a time.

Anyways, beside the point I guess, does the max resil from almost full set of dreadful actually put us in a good place, because at the moment more than 2 enemies at once (even sometimes more than 1) seems to require defensive stance just to even have a moderate chance at survival long enough to burn someone down (other than every 5 minutes obviously).?????
10/03/2012 08:00 AMPosted by Pestilent
with anything more than 2 dps on me at once

Are you expecting to be able to survive 3 dps focus firing you?
I think you are confusing what I wrote, I was stating I was not surviving longer than seconds, by that 3-10 seconds with more than 1-2 dps on me and I was dead in battle stance, it wasn't until I used defensive nonstop I was able to at least last long enough for actual combat to occur.
So again, with full gear does the resilience make it more possible to stay in battle stance or will I basically be in defensive stance for an entire BG due to the ridiculous incoming damage from more than 1-2 enemies?
I was doing some bg's last night and can say without a doubt I did not have this problem, in the gear I'm wearing right now. I was able to have a relatively decent uptime as long as the group was something stupid like 3 to 1 in their favor.

You are going to be dead with three people on you. Period.
I guess I am just entirely healer dependent still then, I mean I had some moments it seemed to work, but by and large if I wasn't in defensive stance, and instead was in battle stance even vs 2 casters I was dying in 10 seconds or less.
Lol, yes, you as one person vs a group of people will most likely make you healer dependent.
2 enemies does not exactly equal a group....and I would easily expect to last longer than 10 seconds even versus 2 of anything.....

let alone that's me gag order/stunning 1 of those 2, so really its a hair shy of someone 1v1 dropping me in 10 seconds unless I use a stance that rage starves for the extra 25% dmg reduction.....that right there seems asinine, if the same thing happens at max gear levels I truly don't see the point in doing BG's anymore. (at least not without running them with a dedicated healer)
Stop changing your argument and l2p.
Quick answer. When I get to lvl 90 and start pvping will I be in battle or def stance (I will be arms)?
Hey Pestilent,

I hear ya . Same thing with me.

Not sure if I was singled out cause of the Warrior thing but.. road in close to battle and got jumped on everytime. Everyitme that is that I was allowed to ride into a battle myself. I lost count of the times I was pulled into the middle of agroup of hord players and dropped within seconds. 10 -14 deaths a match.
I am by no means a top PVP'e,r but I am not a noob either. You may have been targeted because you are a Warrior and every other class feels we are OP at the moment. So they kill us first. Or it could have been just a buch of bad match ups for the BGs. Everyone must agree that those bad match ups happen from time to time.

Just my oppinion...
Yes that is the feeling I kind of got also....perhaps, again I am not fully geared so maybe it will even out.......I think everyone is so worried about getting blown up, they don't even realize its only every 5 minutes, so they might be pre-emptively nuking every warrior...I have to admit I miss enrage regen kind of, it was a better way to recover from caster bursts.

Thank you for the input, felt like I was the only one experiencing this.

I usually wasn't performing all that poorly still top 5 dmger(except 2 BG's where our alliance team was just obliterated nonstop) in most BG's, it was mainly just awkward, it was as if I wasn't even doing anything even if I was, dmg and CC just feels so funky, I guess I will judge it once I get full dreadful this week + gems/enchants filled.
To note, I believe we 'should' be in battle stance mostly, the lower resillience levels might just require us to be in defensive more often to survive some classes burst....remains to be seen, I am hoping defensive doesn't end up being required in BG's more than battle, since rage generation is still so-so compared to Wrath/Cata rage generation levels.

I will say from being midpoint gear wise, second wind does not seem as overly powerful as its made out to be, at least RBG/random BG wise....maybe its a different story for Arena, but It didn't seem like a challenge at all for every class to just blow me up through it.
Warriors are a sturdy class since patch 5, and we have much better control. Make sure you are using:

Die by the sword
Pummel & Heroic Throw (with gag order)
Rallying cry
Intimidating Shout
Shockwave (if you have it)
Mass Spell Reflect
Spell reflect
Shield wall (worst case scenario since putting on a shield will kill your damage)

You should be able to survive an insanely long time against half a BG worth of opponents. And with second wind you can probably run away and survive even if a healer doesn't come to save you. Some people like to keep Def stance on all the time, but I prefer to use berseker stance normally in BGs and switch to Def if I am taking serious damage. You will need to macro some of these abilities to make the best use of them. Use your control abilities wisely (stun or disarm when a melee opponent pops damage cds, charge or heroic throw to interrupt or prevent the most important casts, etc).

Warriors are very different now and it might take some time for you to get used to the new stuff. Good luck!
Appreciate the rundown,though I am not a newbie to the class, I use all of these adequately enough, either way I am going to for now assume its because I am less geared and damage is just excessively higher and may get tweaked in the following month.

I will add to say we have always been sturdy vs melee primarily

vs casters we have actually gotten slightly worse than the spot we were in during cata, the only perk we really got was gag order silencing for everyone, and a slight, very slight bit more mobility, though we lost most our rooting/proper slowing abilities and unless you do actually grab shockwave, you also lost a bit of stun CC, The only reason casters are ranting about us is shockwave/silence mixtures are so rapid in succession and chained, otherwise we are puppets to the majority of casters.

Anyways its beside the point, I think its mainly a case of what Trebon said and just needing full gear, though I do sense I will be stance swapping a lot more often in BG's than ever before, I don't exactly foresee the damage levels of most caster classes such as warlock/mage/Spriest dropping much, in fact they will only ramp up with gear also.
Here are some cool things I noticed.

As fury I can spell reflect / shield wall and go back to dual wield without losing the buff. I.E. no damage loss for using the CD except for the GCD. Safeguard out of roots to your banner you drop next to people is something many warriors still arne't doing.

I think you would be suprised about what a warrior can do atm. Give it time and hope some nerfs don't come in to soon.
Uhh i was like 2 shotting most people in my BG... if im in defensive i can tank for a long time.. you are using your CD's - such as wall etc when your being focused and not just standing there yeah?
you ain't gona survive vs 2 people unless you got heals or out gear it's just that simple.

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